Bagster asked me about a FReepers post earlier and I didn't have time to respond until now...that it's 3 in the morning!
To: ransomnote
FROM YOUR POSTED “STUDY”:
“...Current data on COVID‐19 vaccines is limited, but does not so far reveal evidence of ADE of disease. Non‐human primate studies of Moderna’s mRNA‐1273 vaccine showed excellent protection, with no detectable immunopathology. Phase 1 trials of several vaccines have not reported any immunopathology in subjects administered the candidate vaccines....”
Okay, Bagster, this should be quick and easy. [okay I came back to update the start time above because I got carried away].
“...Current data on COVID‐19 vaccines is limited, but does not so far reveal evidence of ADE of disease."
If you were a 'vaccine' apologist, you use the absence of sufficient data to prove it's a good product and to deny it's a bad product. 'Limited' current data on a technology with 16 years of failure (dead animal trials etc.) becomes the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.
The 16 years of failed studies revealed that the mRNA vaccines trialed had initially promising results and then the negative impacts to the immune system start showing up at the 3 to 6 months mark.
This is no doubt why Moderna choose to keep their human trials under 3 months in duration; they 'limited' the data on purpose.
All animals in 2005 and 2012 trials of previous mRNA trials were fine and 100% developed antibodies. A few months later, when exposed to the actual virus for which they had been 'vaccinated', 100% of the cats in the trials developed 'death'.
I have been told previously that Moderna had successful trials in 2017 involving mice. I have a few links to check out to learn more, but the mice were fine during the study period and became ill after a few months.
Take a really small sample size and a short, quick 'study' and praise the product when you know after 16 years of experience effects are delayed.
This delay explains "Non‐human primate studies of Moderna’s mRNA‐1273 vaccine showed excellent protection, with no detectable immunopathology. " You have to get those monkeys in and out of the lab before they develope ADEs as happened in prior mRNA experiments.
"Phase 1 trials of several vaccines have not reported any immunopathology in subjects administered the candidate vaccines....”
This argument can be summarized thusly: "pathetic"
For a fuller explaination, a whopping 45 healthy people aged 18 to 55 participated in Moderna's Phase 1 trial which lasted approximately 2 months. (that's 'limited alright!). They would add an older group later but Phase I reports only covered these 45 lucky winners. /s
42 out of 45 Phase I participants (a.k.a. walking lab rats) received both doses of the vaccine in the Phase i trial which lasted 57 days (hmmm....why did 3 not get the 2nd dose?) to determine dosage to pursue in Phases II and III. This wasn't a double-blind study with a control group (placebo).
Phase I had 3 groups of people, each group subjected to one of 3 dose rates (low medium high). This small sample size and lack of basic research requirements (double-blind, placebo) is really just an initial surivivability (57 day test) to see if you can move on to the next phase of research.
You know, for people who insist there's no proof the vaccines are dangerous, they sure are eager to use no proof to claim they are safe, eh?
A cohort of 45 healthy participants is statistically irrelevant in determining the safety of the bio-agent. Further, the cohort was broken into 3 groups of 15 people, so really, which ever of the dose rates selected to go forward to Phase II could only have had a test group of 15 persons (18 - 55 yrs) receiving that dosage.
Hopeful results from phase 1 Moderna COVID vaccine trial | CIDRAP (umn.edu)
The mRNA technology has demonstrated consistently negative effects which if they emerge in an individual, usually start happening in the 3-6 month window. Onset can be delayed much longer, with immune issues increasing incrementally - but the rule-of-thumb is 3-6 months.
Therefore, the mRNA trials had to be quick by design - hence they needed to implement the vaccine based on an EUA and not FDA approval. I wondered why the precursor technology never obtained FDA approval in 16 years. I now suspect they never applied for, or sought funding for, long-term trials because problems like ADE delayed onset would certainly be exposed.
Instead, I think they created their bio-agent, and waited to deploy later in an intentional rush (optics), once Hillary Clinton was installed as the Last President.
Here’s a little analysis fro Denninger:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241902
(Note: Embeded links at his site)
The Foolish Bet We’ve Both Allowed And Made
[Comments enabled]
Look at the fence around the Capitol, and the National Guard behind same.
The cops in riot gear in Portland and elsewhere.
And the celebrities, health officials, union screamers and politicians all exhorting Americans of all stripes to roll up their sleeves for an experimental vaccine that was not fully tested in animals, was not fully dose-ranged in humans and instead of being put into a couple of thousand volunteers for a ten year period to determine if it produced durable and safe protection instead is being jammed into 100+ million American arms with threats of coercion now coming into the forefront.
What could possibly go wrong?
A Marek’s disease style disaster, for one.
What is Marek’s disease?
A virus that infects chickens, and which was greatly potentiated by leaky vaccines.
Don’t take my word for it. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/leaky-vaccines-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses#:~:text=Marek‘s%20is%20caused%20by%20a,the%20disease%20the%20under%20control.
No less than National Geographic pointed this out in 2015.
What are we being told about the Covid-19 vaccines? They are leaky; you should continue to wear a mask and social distance because it is not believed they are all sterilizing; none of them may be. In addition all of the ones being trialed in the Western World are an imperfect match against the virus because they code only the spike protein of the virus, not the entire viral protein set. Never mind that all of them available in the US are not actually vaccines by the definition; they instead trick your body into producing the spike protein instead of directly introducing an attenuated or killed virus containing the protein. This approach, specifically in the case of mRNA technology vaccines has never been used before. mRNA was originally developed for cancer therapy where, as it should be obvious, you already have a deadly disease and without treatment you are very likely to die.
The risk profile of the two groups of people could not be more different.
Jonas Salk developed the first polio vaccine. It was leaky in that while it prevented you from getting active polio it didn’t stop you from contracting it and excreting it in your feces. This was recognized by Sabin as very dangerous and thus we for decades used both the injected vaccine and then the oral form, the Sabin vaccine, which produces sterilizing immunity. I remember being given the oral vaccine as a child. Why the injected vaccine first? Because in a very small number of people the oral form would revert in the gut and give you polio instead of protection; the injection prevented that bad outcome.
We knew this more than fifty years ago; non-sterilizing immunity is dangerous. A virus, in the presence of non-sterilizing immunity, through natural evolutionary pressure will tend to evade that protection and become more deadly. There is no safe way to use non-sterilizing vaccines if a virus is circulating in the population.
I am generally pro-vaccination for personal prophylaxis against disease. No vaccine is perfect and no vaccine to “protect others” is ever legitimate under any circumstances, just as I have no obligation to refrain from drinking a beer where you, who are an alcoholic, might see me do it and thus decide to consume your last beer and die. My daughter received (at my direction with the active assistance of her physician) nearly all of the “recommended” vaccines. The exception? HPV because in rare cases it can produce Guillain-Barre, is only protective against some of the strains of the disease, and the disease is only contracted by sexual contact. Therefore that choice was left to her when she became an adult; I had no right to decide for her, in advance, whether she might choose to never sleep with other than one virginal man in her life, as just one example where the risks would make no sense. She received the varicella (Chicken Pox) vaccine because despite Chicken Pox being about as dangerous to kids as Covid-19 with damn near every other kid having got the shot the risk of her getting the virus as an adult, where it is much more dangerous, was far higher than the dangers from the shot.
I am against all “mandatory” vaccines and any coercion to obtain them because the argument for taking them should always and only be predicated on the protection they provide you. If that protection cannot be convincingly proved to you then you should not take it. That all vaccines occasionally fail is fact. That all drugs, including vaccines, have risk is also fact. If you take the vaccine and it fails to protect you then you get just as sick as if you don’t take it at all. If you allow even one person into this nation, ever, under any set of circumstances without iron-clad proof they have taken every single vaccine you try to coerce you are a lying sack of crap and there are literally millions if not tens of millions of such people in this country right now. They’re called illegal invaders and exactly zero of them have shown evidence of vaccination against measles, mumps and myriad other diseases. Nonetheless no coercion was or is required for me to have both taken them myself and given them to my daughter; the science and evidence is what it is.
HOWEVER, I am decidedly against the Covid-19 vaccines as a “universal” recommendation because in healthy people on the math and science it is STUPID to take them; the data says the risk of the shot in the immediate term is approximately equal to the risk of the disease itself instead of being a tiny fraction, often 1/100,000th of the risk (as with polio) or more lower and we know nothing about the intermediate and longer-term risks.
As a point of comparison out of all the Varicella (Chicken Pox) shots given last year there was one associated death. ONE.
Across the Covid-19 vaccines given thus far there are 1,920 associated deaths reported for (https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html), I remind you, a disease that has approximately the same risk of death in a child as does Chicken Pox. These reports are late by definition since if I get a shot today the report of my demise if it occurs won’t be in their system today. When you’re giving out shots on a mass-basis reporting is always materially behind so the real risk is higher than it first appears.
Accepting certain risk of a given magnitude .vs. potential risk of the same magnitude is stupid.
But the stupidity does not end there.
Coronaviruses have a history of producing “ADE”, or antibody-dependent enhancement, when vaccines have been attempted in the past. That is, rather than provide protection the virus mutates slightly over time and the presence of the antibodies from the vaccine do not protect the victim; they instead greatly enhance viral entry into the cells, effectively acting like a key for the lock and bypassing the other natural immune processes that impede viral entry and replication. The result of ADE, if it occurs, is usually extremely severe disease or death.
We have been trying to produce a vaccine for coronaviruses, including SARS and MERS along with the 4 circulating strains that produce colds and flus in the population, for decades. Every single candidate has eventually led to either evasion, making the vaccine worthless, or an ADE-style failure killing all the test animals before the vaccine was able to proceed to human subjects. The same thing has happened in coronavirus vaccine trials for strains of coronavirus that infect animals, specifically cats.
In this case we deliberately shortened animal trials, proceeded anyway and thus we do not know if that outcome will result. That outcome could show up six months or five years from now — or, if we’re lucky, never.
We do not know because we did not do the work and take the time to find out.
There are also very serious issues that can arise with vaccines that are unrelated to the actual virus. In 2009 several swine flu vaccines were rushed out with almost no testing, very similar to what was done this time around, but many caused narcolepsy in both adults and children(https://www.statnews.com/2018/07/05/flu-vaccine-2009-pandemic-narcolepsy/). We never did figure out why that happened. The US did not get hit by it because we did not use the specific set of vaccines implicated but Europe did. I note that this condition, like many others that are autoimmune related, if it occurs results in permanent damage to the person who took the shot that cannot be reversed.
The reason it takes ten years to test a vaccine is not due to lack of funds or lack of desire to proceed faster. It is because there is no way to know whether such bad effects will occur in less time than that, and short-cutting any of the trial stages greatly raises the risk of missing safety signals, some of which will not become apparent for years. Once a shot has gone into an arm if there is a problem there is nothing you can do about it.
In an epidemic or pandemic it is very tempting to try to use accelerated development timelines — as it was in 2009. If certain population subgroups are at extremely high risk, as is the case here, such use of experimental therapies and prophylaxis may well be justified under fully informed consent. For example for an 85 year old person with multiple comorbid conditions, such as obesity and Type II diabetes presenting a risk of death 1,000 times that of a non-morbid person, the math may work to the advantage of the individual even with many unknown risks and in such a small portion of the population (nursing home residents are 0.6% of the population) the risk of potentiating more-virile strains is far less and the risk of ADE or non-virus related severe or even fatal side effects, if it occurs, is worth it for that individual. This must be and should remain their choice.
But this is never true for widespread distribution.
For widespread distribution you must exclude, with absolute certainty, the potential for evasion + virulence to be potentiated.
There is never an excuse for failing to do so with scientific certainty before widespread distribution since being wrong will severely injure or kill a huge percentage, perhaps all, of those who were vaccinated. Humans are not broiler chickens in a factory farm with 40 day lifespans; we live for decades and being wrong means condemning huge numbers of people to death.
Further, all of the above presumes the Chinese, among others, cannot target the specific antibody pattern that is never seen nature but is produced by these vaccines in a second virus to be intentionally released. If you think they, and every state-sponsored terrorist group that hates the Western World is not trying to do exactly that you’re nuts — they are.
Folks, if the gamble on this is lost I don’t think any of you realize how ugly it will get — but you should think long and hard about those consequences and that risk should inform whether you allow the politicians and medical lobby to continue down this road or force them to stop by whatever means are necessary.
Let’s remember that various members of every single law enforcement division and the military have been talked into or even coerced into taking these experimental vaccines and so have their families. Yes, that includes the Secret Service, the FBI, the State and local Police in every jurisdiction across the country and more. Many organizations both public and private (e.g. universities, corporations and others) are intending to or already are enacting coercive policies that effectively demand vaccination with these experimental formulations.
If this forced bet is lost and ADE + virulence shows up those people will watch their WIVES and CHILDREN drop dead and know they are next with 100% certainty since they got the shot too. The fragging will start immediately and it will not stop; no, not everyone who sees their CHILD fall over dead will go insane with retributive rage but a decent percentage will recognize they were conned and snap and there is no way to know in advance who will and who won’t.
There will not be one functional police force anywhere nor will our military be functional. Nobody will come to save or assist you. There will be enough who will snap, never mind all the ordinary citizens who will do so when they realize they and their families were conned into taking an action that is now going to result in certain death.
Every single one of the celebrities, physicians, drug company executives and politicians has literally bet their life, the lives of their family members and our entire civil society that they’re right and this risk, which is very real, will not occur.
If it happens economic and social order collapse will be effectively instantaneous and there will be nothing anyone can do about it.
This is not an “odds-on” risk but it is a real risk and you have to be flat-out insane to be so damned arrogant as to not categorically, scientifically and publicly exclude, with 100% certainty, such a possibility before any mass-use of a vaccine for a disease that kills 0.15% or less of the people who get it and for which we have effective intervention therapies.
From the reading I’ve done on both coronaviruses generally and the previous failed vaccine attempts for coronaviruses I gave this one chance in ten which is outrageously high given the outcome if we roll that “1”.
Again, excluding that risk is why it takes 10 years to qualify and license vaccines and why trial sizes are typically limited to no more than a couple of thousand volunteers until that time has passed and those risks can be absolutely excluded.
We didn’t do that this time around and if we pay for our arrogance exactly no part of our civil society will survive.
Mother Nature is called “Mother” for a reason, and I suspect you know damn well what the word you will utter after “mother” will be if and when this happens.
I pray I’m wrong on this one.
How’s my record thus far on this virus against Fauci, Birx, Trump, Biden and others?
.........
Don’t know about everyone else here, but I’ll sit this vax out.
