[OIFVeteran]

What James Madison said is that the constitution had to be adopted in toto and forever. Meaning there was no means to leave it once a state accepted it.

“The Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever.”

It’s pretty clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills.

But let’s look at what was said at the South Carolina Ratification Convention by Charles Pickney, one of South Carolina’s representative to the constitutional convention. So he should know what the founders at the convention believed.

Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent,as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses.”

Charles Pickney South Carolina ratification convention1788 Pretty clear there, they are not separately and individually independent i.e they are not sovereign. Think I’ll take the word of two founding fathers that was actually at the constitutional convention over some dude named after an olive on the internet.

[rockrr]

Buh, but, you don't understand. It's all legalese and stuff...

[Kalamata]

>>OIFVeteran wrote: “What James Madison said is that the constitution had to be adopted in toto and forever. Meaning there was no means to leave it once a state accepted it.”

That is nonsense.

Mr. Kalamata

[BroJoeK]

In his post #590 OIFVeteran quotes a Founding Father, South Carolina's Charles Pinckney:

"Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."

The question was raised, is this was the elder or younger Pinckney cousin, both of whom were strong Federalists in 1788 and the elder Pinckney went on to head the Federalist presidential ticket in 1804 and 1808?
The younger Pinckney eventually became a Jeffersonian Democrat, and so the suggestion was that this quote must be from the elder, known as Charles Cotesworth Pinckney.

I can't personally verify either the quote or it's provenance, but, assuming it is indeed legitimate, I'd guess it's from the younger Pinckney because:

1. When they mean the elder Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, they usually include his middle name.

2. The younger Pinckney was much more active in the 1787 Constitutional convention, contributing important elements to the Constitution, and therefore likely more committed to it, perhaps less tolerant of opposition.

It would be interesting to learn which Pinckney made the quote and what, exactly, was the context.