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To: BroJoeK; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; Bull Snipe; HandyDandy
>>BroJoeK wrote: "It would be interesting to learn which Pinckney made the quote and what, exactly, was the context?"

It is difficult to determine if it is a direct quote:

"Gen. CHARLES COTESWORTH PINCKNEY, in answer to Mr. Lowndes, observed, that, though ready to pay every tribute of applause to the great characters whose names were subscribed to the old Confederation, yet his respect for them could not prevent him from being thoroughly sensible of the defects of the system they had established; sad experience had convinced him that it was weak, inefficient, and inadequate to the purposes of good government; and he understood that most of the framers of it were so thoroughly convinced of this truth, that they were eager to adopt the present Constitution… In that Declaration the several states are not even enumerated; but after reciting, in nervous language, and with convincing arguments, our right to independence, and the tyranny which compelled us to assert it, the declaration is made in the following words: "We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these United Colonies are, and of fight ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES." The separate independence and individual sovereignty of the several states were never thought of by the enlightened band of patriots who framed this Declaration; the several states are not even mentioned by name in any part of it, as if it was intended to impress this maxim on America, that our freedom and independence arose from our union, and that without it we could neither be free nor independent. Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."

[Gen. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, January 18, 1788, in "Debates In The Legislature And In Convention Of The State Of South Carolina, On The Adoption Of The Federal Constitution." Constitution Society]

https://constitution.org/rc/rat_sc-l.htm

Mr. Kalamata

1,329 posted on 02/01/2020 7:08:36 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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To: Kalamata; BroJoeK; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; Bull Snipe; HandyDandy
Notice what he says after he quotes the DoI.

“The separate independence and individual sovereignty of the several states were never thought of by the enlightened band of patriots who framed this Declaration;(in other words the revolutionary founding fathers never thought of the several states as sovereign on their own)

the several states are not even mentioned by name in any part of it, as if it was intended to impress this maxim on America, that our freedom and independence arose from our union, and that without it we could neither be free nor independent. (No mention of states individually in the DoI because the founders knew our freedom and independence was from America as a whole)

Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."(here he tells the South Carolina ratifiers that they need to forget the idea that each state is sovereign by itself. And if they don’t forget that idea it will cause problems.)

Kalamata have you had a chance to figure out what James Madison meant when he said “The constitution must be adopted in toto and forever.”

1,330 posted on 02/02/2020 6:50:45 AM PST by OIFVeteran
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