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To: EternalVigilance; central_va
There is nothing in the US Constitution that allows states to secede at will. Section 10 clearly prohibits states from negotiating their own trade agreements, waging war, etc. The 10th amendment delegates all powers not given to the Federal Government to the states, it says nothing about the right to secede at will. I'm not familiar with the terms under which Texas entered the union, perhaps it's an exception based on the terms of the annexation.

I don't blame Lincoln for putting down the rebellion once the Confederate states seceded, nor do I buy the argument that putting down secession is in any way illegal or unconstitutional. I blame Lincoln (and even more so the radical abolitionists of the time)for allowing relations between northern and southern states to fester to the point that the southern states were backed into a corner and forced (in their opinion) into what was ultimately illegal acts of secession. Most of the disagreements between north and south could have been negotiated by a more adept and competent and less ideological government at the time.

Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or CONFEDERATION; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

433 posted on 07/07/2015 9:25:01 AM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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To: ek_hornbeck

You southern haters are really at it. How many CBF’s you burn over the weekend?


435 posted on 07/07/2015 9:27:19 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: ek_hornbeck
I blame Lincoln (and even more so the radical abolitionists of the time)for allowing relations between northern and southern states to fester to the point that the southern states were backed into a corner and forced (in their opinion) into what was ultimately illegal acts of secession.

Shoot, I don't see why you should blame Lincoln for that, any more than any other American. Secession was in full swing by the time he even took the oath. There was no time for any "festering."

438 posted on 07/07/2015 9:38:29 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Polling: The dark art of .turning a liberal agenda into political reality.)
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To: ek_hornbeck; central_va
The constitution is understandably silent as to secession. Secession is neither explicitly allowed nor explicitly prohibited. Refer then to Amendment 10 which restricts the powers of the federales to those powers expressly granted by the constitution and reserves all other powers to the states and people respectively.

Eleven Southern states seceded. That power was reserved to those states. From the point of secession forward those states were no longer under the jurisdiction of the Union. They were free and independent. Some will say that they could not thereby avoid responsibility for their share of the national debt. Would that also give them claim to their share of national assets such as naval vessels, land, forts (including Sumter?) military equipment, debts owed to the Union and whatnot calculated as of the time of secession? Perhaps SCOTUS might make a decision based upon the evidence on the distribution of national debt and national assets?

As to efforts to avoid the late hostilities that killed 600,000 soldiers and sailors, I have always thought that former POTUS John Tyler, a Virginian but a Whig, made the best effort expending much of his personal fortune to call a national convention of American leaders of all persuasions in a distinguished but failed effort to avoid war. It was simply too late.

Both Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson opposed Virginia secession from the Union but, regarding themselves primarily as Virginians rather than Americans (as most Americans of the time identified with their states), chose not to make war upon their fellow Virginians. Lee refused the offer of being appointed commanding general of all Union armies. When Lincoln made war against Virginia, Lee and Jackson took up arms against the invaders on behalf of their state and its citizens. It was much the same throughout the Southland.

466 posted on 07/07/2015 11:08:04 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline: Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society/Rack 'em Danno!)
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