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To: Ayn And Milton
With the amount of time the R.A.F. was involved in WWII, they seem to have relatively few really high-scoring aces (20+ victories, let's say) as compared to Germany. I know the Germans flew their pilots until they dropped; did the R.A.F. rotate their pilots out of service after a certain number of missions?

Please don't misunderstand my question as disrespectful to the R.A.F. or their contributions in WWII.

45 posted on 07/19/2010 7:31:21 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Flag_This
I know the Germans flew their pilots until they dropped; did the R.A.F. rotate their pilots out of service after a certain number of missions?

Different sorts of war, I think. After the Battle of Britain, the Germans spent a lot of their air power defending against Allied bombing raids; and they also used their airpower extensively on the Eastern Front against the Russians.

The RAF fighters were more fully engaged in North Africa and the Mediterranean, and I think there was less air-to-air combat there.

46 posted on 07/19/2010 7:41:45 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Flag_This
"With the amount of time the R.A.F. was involved in WWII, they seem to have relatively few really high-scoring aces (20+ victories, let's say) as compared to Germany. I know the Germans flew their pilots until they dropped; did the R.A.F. rotate their pilots out of service after a certain number of missions?"

I think the numbers are skewed primarily because a lot of German aces made their bones early in the war against the air forces of nations flying obsolete aircraft with marginally trained pilots (i.e. France, USSR, Poland, etc.) For example the German "Ace of Aces", Erich Hartmann is recorded as having 352 aerial victories. 345 of these were against the Soviets.

47 posted on 07/19/2010 7:45:58 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Flag_This

Wouldn’t know, sorry. But there are some WWII experts in this thread, perhaps someone can answer?

And: I think your question makes eminent sense. I’d like to know the answer too... it doesn’t show any disrespect at all, by the way.


50 posted on 07/19/2010 8:11:58 AM PDT by Ayn And Milton
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To: Flag_This
Very good question. There are several reasons for this.

Firstly, the Germans were in the war for longer than anyone else. They really started in 1937 in Spain with the Condor legion, going on to 1945 (8 years) whereas the Brits only did six and the americans only four, effectively. Basically, the germans were fighting longer and therefore had more time to notch up scores.

Secondly, as the war turned against Germany, it became increasingly difficult for allie pilots to even find german planes to shoot down! Contrariwise, the few german planes flying had no problems in finding enormous numbers of allied aircraft. Quite simply, the germans just fought more air battles.

Thirdly, its very important for intelligence to know how many enemy aircraft have been destroyed but very difficult to confirm kills through all the confusion and the false claims and the multiple claims. The Brits were probably the strictest in confirming kills before assigning them to an individual pilot, requiring the greatest level of confidence that the enemy aircraft had actually been shot down. Conversely the Germans were undoubtedly the slackest at this, assigning even marginal possibles as definite kills.

Fourthly, the luftwaffe very much had an "Ace" culture. German Aces (experten) were cosseted and feted. Other members of the squadron were expected to follow the lead of the experten and basically help them build up big scores, while taking all the chances and providing better targets for enemy aircraft (basically dying more). In contrast the RAF (and the USAF too for that matter) operated much more on a teamwork basis.

Fifthly fighters dont just gain air superiority. They also have other duties - escorting bombers, ground strafing, and so on. Luftwaffe pilots, with all the emphasis on "big scoring" tended to consider this kind of stuff as "beneath them" and either ignored it or skimped on it. Conversely allied fighter pilots were expected to do close support and ground attack if required and that was that!

75 posted on 07/21/2010 4:38:35 PM PDT by Vanders9
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