Posted on 05/14/2009 11:26:07 AM PDT by mikelets456
Let me try again.
There are women who have very high levels of stress during their first tri-mester of pregnancy. Call them “A” group.
There are women who have low levels of stress during the same period. Call them “B” group.
“A” group women, IIRC, have a 20% HIGHER THAN NORMAL incidence of birthing sons who turn out to be homosexual.
I don’t recall if that’s than average women of all levels of stress or than “B” group. It may well be the latter.
I don’t find that so absurd.
For one, it is during the 1st trimester that the male baby’s brain is . . . shrunk a bit by being bathed in testosterone, IIRC . . . thereby ‘masculinizing’ the infant boy’s brain. High levels of stress in the mother would understandably interfer with that normal masculinization of the boy’s start in life.
Yes, that kind of abuse at such ages can have a strong influence, particularly on some sorts of boys in some sorts of families. However, it’s NOT the whole picture.
Stress from economic problems could certainly result in more male homosexuals.
I don’t think every aspect of every twin study has been totally discredited as you seem to think.
Certainly some were found to have been reported with jiggered statistics from fudged data by homosexual researchers. But not all.
INDEED.
I don’t know how God slices the “100% voluntary” thing.
All sin can be traced back to Adam.
And most male sins and most female sins that I know about . . . can readily be traced back to
1. ATTACHMENT DISORDERS OF VARIOUS—usually very great—DEGREES.
2. SINS OF THE FATHERS VISITED TO THE 3RD & 4TH GENERATION—whether by spiritual, genetic or environmental transfer.
3. PROVOKING CHILDREN TO WRATH usually by DISCIPLINE without SUFFICIENT RELATIONSHIP producing rebellion.
Prisons are full of men (and I think similarly of women) . . . what is it . . . 97% or some such of prison men have had serious ATTACHMENT DISORDERED CHILDHOODS.
I wonder how an all knowing, Loving Almighty God who’s mercy triumphs over His justice will apportion it all out.
Are your bad habits 100% purely your own choice? I’m skeptical.
Yet, certainly we have the deciding responsibility—especially at some point.
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VERY GOOD DOC.
THX.
The only place I will give you "environmental" folks an amen is gay sex in a prison. This is an EXTREME of environment, where young, sexually active males are separated from women, and will, on occasion, get release with a man. BUT, once they are out of prison, they will only seek females.
Back in the seventies, a group of envirodeterminist-whackos tried to bring up their little boys in a way so they wouldn't play war-like games. They failed miserably---this stuff is hard-wired in whether or not you want to believe it.
Just google sunscreen and toxic and read away. There is plenty of scientific proof.
That’s what I thought.
“don’tAn American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there’s no homosexual “gene” — meaning it’s not likely that homosexuals are born that way.”
As I said on the other thread, one does not follow the other. It’s long been suggested that development in the womb due to the mother’s biochemistry is the key. A gay gene never had anything to do with that.
++—Some individuals evidence pre-homosexual traits very early on, e.g., some little boys play with dolls and not guns, they always want to perform, dress in mommy’s clothes, etc—++
I played with dolls and I LOVE women! I hated guns, but now I love them. I dressed up because I wanted to hang out with my sister’s friends...whom I had crushes on!
++—Why, if it indeed were a choice, would any guy choose a lifestyle that marginalizes him, gets the tar beat out of him at times and just makes life tougher?—++
The same reason I drank and did some drugs in high school. I knew my Dad would catch me and beat the living crap out of me. I knew it was wrong, but I did it out of SPITE!!! I think this is key!! Spite....bitterness, anger ,hate...but spite is the key.
Also, try walking into a School, store or concert with a shirt that says “I love Jesus” and see what happens!You think you’ll be greeted with praises? Nope, you’ll get heckled and most likely harassed. It’s a choice that I am willing to be persecuted for. BTW, Christianity is LESS tolerated than gays are! Also, Christians and Jews are the MOST persecuted groups in ALL history. Why would someone choose that...Hmmmm!
++——Something that is SO important to the survival of a species, i.e., successful coupling with the opposite sex, how could nature (or God) leave that to chance?——++
In the Bible, homosexuality is a detestable sin...God does not create anything that is “detestable”. It’s our choice. Also, if homosexuality was a gene or inbred, how would it survive when homosexuals can not reproduce?
++——Humans are very visual-cue oriented when it comes to sex; it would be, I believe, an impossible task to talk a gay guy into being turned on by breasts and women’s behinds as it would be to talk you or me into liking a guy’s hairy butt—+++
The same reason there is bestiality, orgies, perverted sex, sex with “toys”, weird body piercings, etc.....it has to do with a PERVERSION and rebellion.. plain and simple! It’s almost become an animalistic/ “screw you” type of instinct. All ex-gays I have talked to said they sought out other men because they were trying to “fill a void” left by abuse, neglect, etc. Also, they did it out of spite and cry for attention...then the downward spiral continued. Once they found Christ they lost the urge for the same sex....coincidence? Not a chance!
“I have always believed that for male homosexuals, a very strong genetic component exists.”
If that were the case then it would be evident in twin studies, but is not. There is a higher than normal correlation of gayness betweeen identical twins but that can also be due to environmental or shared intra-uterine conditions. There is also the theory that exposure to the wrong hormones during development can trigger it.
“—Why, if it indeed were a choice, would any guy choose a lifestyle that marginalizes him, gets the tar beat out of him at times and just makes life tougher?”
Why do people choose to be a drug user, bank robber, alcoholic, gang member or other antisocial activity that can get them locked up or killed? Why dye your hair blue, or implant spikes in your scalp? Some people are just attracted to the lifestyle. It was gays who called thier behavior “an alternative lifestyle choice”, not the straights. That was before they figured out there was an advantage to having homosexuality be inborn.
There also seems to be a high correlation of homosexuality with being sexually abused as a child. Apparently sexual abuse really screws up the psyche.
“—Something that is SO important to the survival of a species, i.e., successful coupling with the opposite sex, how could nature (or God) leave that to chance?”
Wouldn’t that be an argument AGAINST homosexuality being genetic? Is it likely that after a billion years of evolution, that 1-2 percent of the population have mutations that cause sexual attraction to the wrong gender? I would expect that those individuals would have been selected out of the population hundreds of millions of years ago. The frequency of the mutation would also have to be extraodinarily high. The avg rate of mutation among single copy genes is typically far less than 1 in a million.
I think the cause is more likely to be hormonal, environmental, or simple choice rather than genetic.
Good grief, I never thought of that one. Yikes.
What exactly in a "genetic makeup" would select for a "doll" or a "gun", or "mommy's clothes"? There's a gene that makes people like to play with guns instead of dolls?
You can make a baby girl play with guns, if you don't spend all your time with her saying "cute girl, must play with dolls". And boys with parents who hate guns don't play with guns.
The TYPES of play you engage in might be some clue, but frankly I don't think I was genetically disposed to like cooking rather than boxing.
Why is "performing" a feminine trait?
Why, if it indeed were a choice, would any guy choose a lifestyle that marginalizes him, gets the tar beat out of him at times and just makes life tougher?
Why do women choose men who beat them? Why do people choose jobs they hate? Why would anybody choose to believe in Religion now that it is the one thing that people can laugh at you for?
A boy who feels like he can't make it with girls, so decides to go with boys instead? Easy choice actually, especially in modern times when we are taught at an early age that it is perfectly natural. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more boys in homosexual relationships now that it is cool.
Sorry, I don't buy that there is some genetic component that makes some boys feel they have to stick their penis in an anus rather than a vagina, and even if there were, that the anus has to be attached to a male body. Men will have sex with themselves, with dolls, with little jars of goo, with sheep, goats, and horses. Men will go to the ugliest women.
Men in prison will sleep with men. It doesn't take a genetic disposition for a man to stick it in a willing recipient. It only takes a society that stops reminding people that there are actual boundaries.
I played with dolls and I LOVE women! I hated guns, but now I love them. I dressed up because I wanted to hang out with my sister’s friends...whom I had crushes on!
Uh...ok. But, this is not about YOU, it is about what in GENERAL are the outcomes of little boys who like to dress up, eschew rough-housing and play with dolls. What happens MOST of the time is that they become GAY (and BTW, how many Judy Garland CDs do you have?? ;-) )
[Why guys would pick gay lifestyles?]The same reason I drank and did some drugs in high school. I knew my Dad would catch me and beat the living crap out of me. I knew it was wrong, but I did it out of SPITE!!! I think this is key!! Spite....bitterness, anger ,hate...but spite is the key.
C'mon now...yeah, sure, I as a 16 y/o guy who lusts after T&A will have sex with a guy to spite my dad...????Uh....NO.
Also, try walking into a School, store or concert with a shirt that says “I love Jesus” and see what happens!You think you’ll be greeted with praises? Nope, you’ll get heckled and most likely harassed. It’s a choice that I am willing to be persecuted for. BTW, Christianity is LESS tolerated than gays are! Also, Christians and Jews are the MOST persecuted groups in ALL history. Why would someone choose that...Hmmmm!
There is a differenc between sex and religion...sex is a natural drive that is part of our species' and every other species' behavioral repertoire.
...if homosexuality was a gene or inbred, how would it survive when homosexuals can not reproduce?
Great question...now you're using scientific knowledge of evolution and natural selection in your thought process and not faith-based material. Your question has been pondered for some time, and science has not come up with any good data or theories to explain it. But, that didn't stop science from eventually finding many answers to other questions. Some theories rely on the effect that creativity would have on species survival, and that there may have been a coupling of creative genes to gay male genes.
The same reason there is bestiality, orgies, perverted sex, sex with “toys”, weird body piercings, etc.....it has to do with a PERVERSION and rebellion.. plain and simple! It’s almost become an animalistic/ “screw you” type of instinct. All ex-gays I have talked to said they sought out other men because they were trying to “fill a void” left by abuse, neglect, etc. Also, they did it out of spite and cry for attention...then the downward spiral continued. Once they found Christ they lost the urge for the same sex....coincidence? Not a chance!
No...here I would say that these perversions are also an interplay of genes and environment and not driven by your so-called need to be rebellious.
We will never agree because faith does not rely on science and science tests hypotheses using observation, prediction and experimentation. Science does not believe in Revealed Truth, but seeks truth. Peace be with you...
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