Evolution as Described by the Second Law of Thermodynamics

Physorg.com ^ | August 11, 2008 | Lisa Zyga

[Soliton]

By viewing evolution as the motion of energy flows toward a stationary state (entropy), evolution can be explained by the second law of thermodynamics, a law which conventionally describes physical systems. In this view, a cheetah serves as an energy transfer mechanism, and beneficial mutations allow the animal to transfer more energy within its environment, helping even out the energy.

[Soliton]

But creationist IDers say that the second law of thermodynamics makes natural evolution impossible!

[jalisco555]

But creationist IDers say that the second law of thermodynamics makes natural evolution impossible!

I think most creationists have abandoned that line of argument.

[shineon]

Evolution is based upon the theory that death and mutation has ultimately resulted in the creation of man.

No thanks...

I’ll take Jesus my Lord, God and Savior over death and mutation 10,000 times in a row.

[Soliton]

I think most creationists have abandoned that line of argument.

Not here on FR. I get it tossed at me constantly

[jalisco555]

Not here on FR. I get it tossed at me constantly

Oh, I know. But in general I think it's the case.

[Soliton]

I’ll take Jesus my Lord, God and Savior over death and mutation 10,000 times in a row.

But the Bible tells us that Jesus died and mutated (transfigured). Don't you believe the Bible?

[Alter Kaker]

Evolution is based upon the theory that death and mutation has ultimately resulted in the creation of man. No thanks...

That's like saying, "Gravity is based on the theory that we're all getting sucked into our planet. No thanks."

Facts are stubborn things. They don't just go away because you don't like them or their implications.

[jalisco555]

Facts are stubborn things. They don't just go away because you don't like them or their implications.

Well said.

[scottdeus12]

I put creme in my coffee this morning, and it changed colors...must be evolution....

Making your point is one thing; but you are borderline obsessed with this stuff.....seriously.....

[mnehring]

But creationist IDers say that the second law of thermodynamics makes natural evolution impossible!

If the young earthers ignore the part about 'closed system', ignoring that initial energy transfer comes from the sun.

[Theo]

I was under the impression that the second law of thermodynamics also spoke of a movement from order to chaos. From useful/organized energy to useless/random energy. Is that not an aspect of this theory?

[Soliton]

“A naturalistic origin of the universe violates either the First or Second Laws of thermodynamics — or both. So, is this science? Or faith?”

Roy Spencer on Intelligent Design, July 14th 2008

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/roy-spencer-on-intelligent-design/

[Soliton]

I was under the impression that the second law of thermodynamics also spoke of a movement from order to chaos. From useful/organized energy to useless/random energy. Is that not an aspect of this theory?

That is what they are discussing in the article

[jalisco555]

Well, I admit I don’t spend a lot of time reading the ID literature. It’s just an impression I’ve gathered, that those who believed the 2nd Law precludes evolution were just embarrassed too often and dropped that particular argument.

[LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget]

;-)

[jonno]

I buy that faster cheetahs beget faster cheetahs. But the logical conclusion would also be that wildebeests and antelope type species develop claws and fangs to fend off their attackers.

It has to work both ways - right?

[jalisco555]

I buy that faster cheetahs beget faster cheetahs. But the logical conclusion would also be that wildebeests and antelope type species develop claws and fangs to fend off their attackers. It has to work both ways - right?

No it doesn't. Maybe they develop faster speed and herd behavior instead. Humans didn't develop fangs to fight the sabre-tooth tiger, we developed better brains.

[Soliton]

Well, I admit I don’t spend a lot of time reading the ID literature. It’s just an impression I’ve gathered, that those who believed the 2nd Law precludes evolution were just embarrassed too often and dropped that particular argument

And they should be, but the link I just gave you is to a site run by one of the Discovery Institutes primary voices. The Discovery Institute is behind this whole ID push. They don't publish this nonsense to convert scientists. It's for the true believers to inocculate themselves agaist the truth. It's not a recruiting strategy, but a retention program.

[GunRunner]

Dang, that’s Rush’s guy. Who would have thought he was on board with this stuff?

[xmission]

So you thought you’d just stir the pot a bit...