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To: cogitator
When you claim that la nina can make the global climate cooler during a given a year, you need to account for the heat that isn't accounted for in that particular cooler yearly statistic.

If you are claiming that the heat moves into the deep ocean during la nina, you need to explain why only surface ocean temperatures are relevant when drawing up statistics.

If your la nina made sense, ocean surface temps would become warmer when a la nina event begins if it is drawing heat from the atmosphere. There is something between the atmosphere and the deep ocean and it's called the ocean surface. Your claim is that the atmosphere and the ocean surface simultaneously lose joules during a la nina.

None of your charts can discredit the laws of thermodynamics, no matter how hard you wish they could.

32 posted on 05/05/2008 10:30:23 AM PDT by Perchant
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To: Perchant
When you claim that la nina can make the global climate cooler during a given a year, you need to account for the heat that isn't accounted for in that particular cooler yearly statistic.

OK.

If you are claiming that the heat moves into the deep ocean during la nina, you need to explain why only surface ocean temperatures are relevant when drawing up statistics.

Regarding the first part of the sentence above, that is not the claim (and note that the claim is not "mine".) Regarding the second half of the sentence, I have no idea what you mean.

If your la nina made sense, ocean surface temps would become warmer when a la nina event begins if it is drawing heat from the atmosphere.

La Nina events do not "draw heat" from the atmosphere. They allow increased heating of the western Pacific warm pool by solar radiation. Which would've been apparent if you had actually considered the diagrams and thought about what was happening.

Children of the Tropics: El Niño and La Niña
See paragraph beginning "Recent work..."

Your claim is that the atmosphere and the ocean surface simultaneously lose joules during a la nina.

First of all, I don't think that "losing joules" is the right way to express a cooling process. I believe that would apply to a heating process, i.e., if something is heated by a heat source, then the heat source "loses" joules that are gained by the something that is heating up.

Now, when the air mass directly above the cooler ocean waters gets cooled by those waters, the heat gets displaced, essentially upward, by the cooler air below. A warmer air mass will radiate more energy to space. Also, cooler air aloft will cause condensation, and the latent heat of condensation may account for the rest of the heat. More rainfall over the western Pacific is expected during a La Nina.

34 posted on 05/05/2008 11:09:54 AM PDT by cogitator
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