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And with that ignorant statement, I officially give up. This is a story that defies common sense, reason, and facts. There are too many people who have little interest in the truth, and only care for the cause. And too many others who seem to care for the truth but do nothing to correct the bizarre misstatements of others on their side.

I entered this battle because I want the truth, and you can't get the truth if lies are given the time of day.

I was warned that it was a pointless task, but I thrive on pointless tasks.

But even I have my limits, and I have reached them.

Don't take this personally, your comment isn't even that odd. But to deconstruct why it is an ignorant claim would take linking to too many other stories, and quoting too many things, to be worth it to me anymore.

If the pro-BP-agent folks ever come up with a fact, they will get their way -- I have little doubt that the system will work. I further doubt the agents will be pardoned unless the facts break the way the defense wants them to break, which I don't expect to happen.

But I certainly would be pleased to find the smuggler a scumbag liar, and the two BP agents innocent. Unfortunately, I can't join the conspiracy because to do so I apparently have to destroy the lives of literally DOZENS of other fine men and woman who work for our government, all of who have been called lying scumbags and worse in the "cause" of freeing these two men. And I simply don't buy the consipiray theory.

My point in all this has been to back you all down from sensationalist claims. If you could refute my points, your arguments would be so much stronger, and you might get mainstream media attention.

My fear is that this, like so many other far-right zealous causes, will only make republicans look more stupid. In an odd way, the more proof you all can find, the less likely that is (although I still don't see the logic in essentially condeming all the people you need to win over in order to get your way).

Truth be told, a blind man could make a hole in one, and maybe the defenders will turn out to have a case. I doubt it, I won't mind it, but they aren't getting there with the arguments and stuff they've thrown around so far.

But don't stop, just try to stay in the real world guys.

Having investigated either as 'case agent' or assisting another officer or PD in a hundred or so shootings, some involving officers, I got just a tad of experience in these issues.

Even taking out the factor of Dubya's indifference to the whole boarder issues, just look at the facts: At the moment they fired their pistols, they felt threatened.

There is no one saying they shot at this guy because he didn't pay a bribe or do something that would benefit them. It's as simple as that!

Maybe they panicked?

Don't know as I wasn't there.

But being charged and given TEN years for an administrative violation?

Add in all the lies by DHS, the second load of dope and nothing adds up. Then go back to the fact that Federal SWAT teams were brought in to serve the arrest warrants when the guys already had attorneys and such?

So how much time ya got in the LEO biz? (not that your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else)

And with that ignorant statement, I officially give up. This is a story that defies common sense, reason, and facts. There are too many people who have little interest in the truth, and only care for the cause. And too many others who seem to care for the truth but do nothing to correct the bizarre misstatements of others on their side. I entered this battle because I want the truth, and you can't get the truth if lies are given the time of day. I was warned that it was a pointless task, but I thrive on pointless tasks. But even I have my limits, and I have reached them. Don't take this personally, your comment isn't even that odd. But to deconstruct why it is an ignorant claim would take linking to too many other stories, and quoting too many things, to be worth it to me anymore. If the pro-BP-agent folks ever come up with a fact, they will get their way -- I have little doubt that the system will work. I further doubt the agents will be pardoned unless the facts break the way the defense wants them to break, which I don't expect to happen. But I certainly would be pleased to find the smuggler a scumbag liar, and the two BP agents innocent. Unfortunately, I can't join the conspiracy because to do so I apparently have to destroy the lives of literally DOZENS of other fine men and woman who work for our government, all of who have been called lying scumbags and worse in the "cause" of freeing these two men. And I simply don't buy the consipiray theory. My point in all this has been to back you all down from sensationalist claims. If you could refute my points, your arguments would be so much stronger, and you might get mainstream media attention. My fear is that this, like so many other far-right zealous causes, will only make republicans look more stupid. In an odd way, the more proof you all can find, the less likely that is (although I still don't see the logic in essentially condeming all the people you need to win over in order to get your way). Truth be told, a blind man could make a hole in one, and maybe the defenders will turn out to have a case. I doubt it, I won't mind it, but they aren't getting there with the arguments and stuff they've thrown around so far. But don't stop, just try to stay in the real world guys.

Well said, well said!

Your arguments are sound, but they are a lot like those used by folks who still have a pre-911 viewpoint ~ they simply aren't operative anymore.

Whether the guy was beaten a little or beaten a lot, the fact that he was beaten at all makes all the nut-ball, kookoo fringe ideas advanced in this case take on the patina of veracity.

There is no way a modern warden of a federal penitentiary turns a former federal cop loose in the general population within a few days of his arrival.

I can believe this woman is totally incompetent, and maybe her subordinates figured this was a way to call attention to her in the most negative way possible so that she loses her job and goes back to a cubby-hole on 2nd Street in DC. But what about Gonzales? This is a high profile case. Who can believe that he and his little friend Sutton (the prosecutor) would let this happen so soon. So, maybe Gonzales and Sutton are also incompetent.

Should we be surprised?