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To: Cementjungle
I think that this is totally overblown. My whole career was in IT, and I had zero formal training in computer science. I've hired many, many IT workers, and degrees meant nothing to me... in fact, I tended to shy away from the CS majors as I found them to be inferior to others.

That's interesting; and I do think that most CS courses do a disservice to students. The only reason I can think of that something as useful as Ada's subtype hasn't made it into "mainstream languages" is that the CS-education has been geared toward "industry popularity". (While I could, and do, rant on the subject... it's a bit tangential, though certainly not irrelevant.)

The issue isn't only with CS (I only chose that because that is my degree field, and I've done job-searching), but apparently much of Science, Technology, Engineering, Math (STEM) — though I'll bet "technology" is the least severe case.

We keep hearing about the H1B visas and the lack of "talent"... but these stories are only coming from the biggies like Microsoft and Google. The reality is that nearly every company in existence in this country needs IT people, and many of those workers are folks who are self-taught, or just happen to have an aptitude for computers and programming.

Questions: Do you consider programming to be an "IT people" job? If not we're talking kiwi-fruit to potatoes; my particular case is software engineering/software development. If you do, then what programming language[s] do you use? (and, moreover, why?) Do you understand the limitations and drawbacks thereof? [Say something like PHP (or even C++).]

54 posted on 12/28/2013 11:41:15 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark
Questions: Do you consider programming to be an "IT people" job? If not we're talking kiwi-fruit to potatoes; my particular case is software engineering/software development. If you do, then what programming language[s] do you use? (and, moreover, why?) Do you understand the limitations and drawbacks thereof? [Say something like PHP (or even C++).]

I personally made my living (in chronological order) by first making some successful (but clandestine) applications on a PC (TRS-80 actually) in BASIC. I eventually got pulled into the IT department (as an applications developer) where I had to work in COBOL mostly. I eventually got bored with that, and moved into the division of the company that did the in-store (supermarket) systems and got to work in C and assembler. I eventually moved into C++ and then C#. Of course I also had to be proficient in things like REXX, JCL, shell scripts, regular expressions, and all those other ancillary skills.

I understand that "IT" is a broad term... and does include low-paid desktop support (not to mention help desk, computer operators, etc.) folks. But, I've seen many of those types of people move up from those positions once they display the aptitude and willingness to work hard and learn (often on their own time/dime). In smaller companies, help desk folks need to learn a little of everything... software installation, PC support tasks like fixing software/hardware issues, networking, etc. These skills do have an upward mobility path for those who are so inclined.

56 posted on 12/28/2013 12:07:04 PM PST by Cementjungle
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