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Stratfor disputes OBL killing in Abbottabad
The Nation on the Web of Pakistan! ^ | August 19, 2011 | Azhar Masood

Posted on 08/21/2011 9:54:00 PM PDT by hamboy

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To: firebrand

Look. Bill Gertz was tipped about this at the time. He was actually the only one who came out publicly with it, but he was shut up because the bush administration needed a live bin laden for their own political reasons. Like the audio that came out right before his reelection that put him out of kerry’s reach.
Think back and remember the flurry of activity surrounding the saudi royals at the time. About moving the royal family possessions and cars, even, for their *safety* to Marbella.
There was even a false report that the saudi king had died.
That was to cover what they were actually doing, and what they were doing, was recovering bin laden’s body and bringing it home with honor.


41 posted on 08/21/2011 11:24:05 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: hamboy
Is this going to turn into another "who shot Kennedy" conspiracy?


42 posted on 08/21/2011 11:28:36 PM PDT by clearcarbon
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To: MestaMachine
It is true. And why is it NOT relevant?

It's not true because OBL was caught and killed in Abottabad a few months ago.

As to the relevance? That should be self explanatory.

Full disclosure, I spent the last ten years, up until February, working GWOT / intelligence, and over half of that time direct support to Special Operations. The latter half, after my knee went bad, I worked as a desk jockey at Maryland or forward, then as a consultant / teacher for the military downrange.

So.

I was having lunch with a friend from high school, hadn't seen him in years. He'd gone over the top lib in college, whereas I went off to the Army. Anyway, he had seen some stuff on the internet about 9/11. Missiles instead of planes. False flag operation. Smart people dug into this. Did their research. Scientific stuff. Wanted to know if I knew anything about it. I was in the system, after all. Maybe I had heard something?

It's an innocent enough question, if you don't understand how the intel world works. If you do, it's an accusation of being accessory to treason and mass murder.

I politely explained that despite the natural desire of man to find fault in leaders they don't like, by tying every bad thing that happens to them, you'd have to involve literally thousands of people who could blow the whistle and destroy him. People who are often bitterly opposed to each other organizationally, personally, or philosophically. The ideal that we'd all just chill out with the cutthroat intel collection scene because GW needed to drop some skyscrapers for Halliburton is so remotely bizarre that it's hard to even get worked up about it personally.

Anyway, I found the time to be insulted personally, we never spoke again.

Why my story is relevant to your fairy tale is that both flights of fancy would require many thousands of people, 95% in the SOF community, 40% in the intel community, to forget the fact they despise Obama and could destroy him politically by doing the legal and moral thing, i.e. to expose a criminal cover up. Instead, they'd have to play along with said criminal cover up for no reason at all, other than to risk going to jail in order to get a guy you despise reelected.

Ergo, this Osama died in 2005 business is not relevant to any discussion grounded in reality.

43 posted on 08/21/2011 11:35:42 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: clearcarbon
Is this going to turn into another "who shot Kennedy" conspiracy?



Looks like they're watching the Deep Troat film!




44 posted on 08/21/2011 11:35:54 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: MestaMachine

Post whatever links you can about this, if you don’t mind. I will try to do my own research, but it sounds as though you might have them handy or at least know better keywords to find them.

I find all your statements believable, but we would need more in order to cast doubt on The Movie. Without backup, or another film from the opposite view, the effort to discredit the film could backfire on us.


45 posted on 08/21/2011 11:42:44 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Full disclosure

Rotfl. Out of your quarantine period, are you?

46 posted on 08/21/2011 11:43:09 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: MestaMachine

Something sure does not make sense. We are working with Al-Qaida in Libya just a few months after we supposedly killed Bin Laden ?


47 posted on 08/21/2011 11:46:45 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Steel Wolf

With all due respect, what you think you know is impossible. And if it WAS true, the rest of your *reason* would be exactly the same as what you are saying about this op. And ain’t no one saying nothing.


48 posted on 08/21/2011 11:50:07 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: justa-hairyape

Exactly.


49 posted on 08/21/2011 11:50:42 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: firebrand

Do you know anyone who speaks arabic? I can tell you how to verify.


50 posted on 08/21/2011 11:54:10 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: MestaMachine

Thinking, thinking . . .

The guys at the hardware store maybe. Jerusalem Gyro?

No, I guess I don’t.

Any chance of Bill Gertz giving up his source? Time to come to the aid of his country?


51 posted on 08/22/2011 12:07:52 AM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: firebrand

He can’t verify the story. He accepted it, as he has others, with a source backed up by a source. The thing you have to understand is to verify, you need to know islamic customs. Not just from one sect or country, but from a vast range. Otherwise, trying to analyze relevant data is almost impossible.
You have to know what is acceptable from one islamic country to another, because things wssterners don’t pay attention to in any negative way, like stetson hats and berets, are noticed and frowned upon in different islamic countries...like the religious relevance between white turbans and black turbans, for instance. They are a highly symbolic cculture.
You have to know their funeral and mourning customs, especially for those they honor. There is a series of customs each having a specific meaning and time period.
You have to know how they speak to each other so that the west thinks they are talking about watermelons or sushi when they are actually talking about a target.
It is a complicated and methodical process.


52 posted on 08/22/2011 12:31:29 AM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: freekitty

.............Is this another POS deal like the Obama birth certificate orchestrated by Obama and Co. to distract us?...............

Interesting comment. Attached is an e-mail that I received today. Who knows where the truth lies.


FOR GOD’S SAKE READ THIS ARTICLE, OPEN YOUR MIND AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS. WE MUST PREPARE FOR THE WORST AND PRAY FOR THE BEST NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKE WE MUST DESTROY OBAMA AND THE DEVILS HE IS SUPPORTED BY. I SAY “ UP IN ARMS “ SEND THEM TO GOD AND LET HIM SORT THEM OUT.

SFC RONALD M MAPES (RET)

Don’t know anything about this lady, but have been suspicious since Osama was suddenly buried at sea, body never shown, and all Navy Seals that were witnesses were on one helicopter at the same time..... Interesting read

The Execution Of SEAL Team Six
Penned by Ann Barnhardt
8-7-11

The Execution of SEAL Team Six (Part 1)

On May 5th, I had an email conversation with a retired military man with spook contacts. All were in total agreement that the Bin Laden episode was pure theater. The SEALS were sent into a compound as evidenced by the lost chopper on site. But Osama Bin Laden wasn’t in that compound. Osama Bin Laden has been dead for years. Bin Laden had a genetic condition that caused renal failure (this genetic condition is common among deeply inbred Saudi arab muslims). Bin Laden had been on dialysis BEFORE 9/11. Dialysis is difficult enough for people in first world countries who can have it done in outstanding facilities. Bin Laden was having it done either in caves or in homes post 9/11. People in renal failure having dialysis done in fricking caves do NOT live for ten more years. Period. There was no dialysis equipment found in the compound the SEALS raided on May 2. Of course there wasn’t. Bin Laden wasn’t in that compound because Bin Laden has been dead for years.

This is why the “body” was declared “positively identified” faster than any known DNA testing process in existence - and this DNA testing was carried out not in a lab mind you, but inside Chinook and/or V-22 Osprey helos en route to the USS Carl Vinson. The body was then dumped into the Indian Ocean in a mad dash to ensure that “burial” took place within 24 hours of death in order to “honor” musloid burial traditions. Not a single picture of the so-called “Bin Laden corpse” has ever been released - and never will.

The entire Bin Laden episode was stagecraft. It was pure theater that was designed to give Obama a boost in the polls and give distraction and cover. Distract from what? Cover from what?

April 20, 2011: The release date of Dr. Jerome Corsi’s book, “Where’s the Birth Certificate” is announced as May 17, and pre-sales begin on Amazon.com. Corsi’s work is known to be extremely thorough and meticulous. Within hours, Corsi’s book is #1 on Amazon.com - fully 28 days before its release. The Obama regime is panicked.

April 27, 2011: In order to diffuse and undercut the Corsi book, the Obama regime releases a PDF image purported to be a scan of his original long-form Hawaiian birth certificate. Within hours, thousands of graphic designers, many of whom are self-professed Obama voters and supporters, isolate and demonstrate with dozens of objective proof sets that the PDF released by the Obama regime is not just a forgery, but an astoundingly incompetent and obvious forgery.

April 27 through May 2: The Obama regime is now in a blind panic. Deeming it too risky, instead of commissioning the forged birth certificate from document and photo illustration experts within the CIA or NSA, the Obama regime instead farmed the project off on someone inside the White House with a functional but middling knowledge of photo illustration programs. To the thoroughly inexpert eyes of Barack Obama, Michelle Obama and Valerie Jarrett, the forged certificate file appeared extremely convincing, and was thus released with fanfare. Within hours, they knew that they had not only made a mistake, but a massive mistake that could land them all in prison. The forger was so incompetent that he/she didn’t even flatten the image thus compressing and masking the component layers before posting it. And that was just the tip of the iceberg of glaring flaws and errors. The mainstream press was, so far, completely complicit in the cover-up of the forgery, but Rathergate proved that if the forgery debunking generated any mainstream traction whatsoever, the end could come swiftly. The Obama regime needed a big distraction and they needed it fast. They had been planning on holding the staged Bin Laden capture and killing until 2012 ­ for the thick of the campaign, and perhaps as an “October Surprise”, but it would have to be moved up to now.

May 2, 2011: The Bin Laden operation occurs. In all likelihood, a low-to-mid level Taliban or insurgent leader is killed.

May 3, 2011: Within hours, Vice President Joe Biden destroys any notions of OPSEC and bellows to the entire world in public remarks at a dinner at the Ritz Carlton that the Bin Laden raid was carried out by “the SEALS”. Within hours Obama regime had gleefully leaked that the raid was carried out by “SEAL Team 6”, also known as DEVGRU. Up until this point in history, all DEVGRU activities and information had been highly classified. Now the term “SEAL Team 6” was blasted across every newspaper in the world, with Disney even moving to trademark the name. The Obama regime wanted the ENTIRE WORLD to know the name “SEAL Team 6”.

May 5, 2011: As I said earlier, I conversed with retired military contact with spook contacts regarding the obvious theatrics of the Bin Laden episode and the need for a cover-up by the Obama regime. The conversation ended with the following exchange:

Ann: I’m on the US Military casualty email list. It would be NO PROBLEM to “hide” casualties. It’s a steady stream out of Afghanistan.

Contact: look for training accidents in the eastern mountains.

May 6, 2011: Obama travels to Ft. Campbell, KY to openly “meet and congratulate” SEAL Team 6 members. This receives huge press coverage, and the press declares the incident “a huge boost [for Obama] going into 2012.”

The Execution of SEAL Team Six (Part 2)

Posted by Ann Barnhard

August 6, AD 2011

August 6, 2011: A Chinook helo is shot down in Tangi, Wardak Province, Afghanistan. Within hours, before family notifications could possibly have been completed, global press accounts positively confirm that 22 of the 30 Americans killed were not just SEALS, but members of SEAL Team 6. Again, DEVGRU operations have been, up until now, highly classified. Today, the Obama regime made a point of immediately revealing the unit identities of the SPECOPS forces among the dead.

In the past, DEVGRU men and other SPECOPS men have been killed in action, but their missions were so secret and so crucial to OPSEC that their deaths were covered-up by the government and attributed to such things as “training accidents” and the like ­ and I have no problem with that. These men understand going in to intense units such as DEVGRU that OPSEC is paramount, that they will never be publicly acknowledged for their heroism, and that if they are killed or captured in action, the government will lie about that in order to protect OPSEC and to prevent the enemy from gaining a propaganda and morale coup. Compare that reality with what happened today. The Obama regime distributed this information, and the Obama regime’s lapdog press instantly splashed headlines declaring this as the Taliban’s “REVENGE” for the “death of Bin Laden.” As I write this now, the Drudge Report headline in bright red reads, “REVENGE: SEALS WHO GOT OSAMA KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN.”

I’ll say what everyone else is thinking but is too scared to say. The Obama regime is almost certainly directly complicit in these deaths. The time, location and most especially, the PASSENGERS in the Chinook were passed to the Taliban. Additionally, you can’t take out a Chinook with small arms fire or even standard RPGs such as the Taliban use. The Taliban needed serious weaponry to take this helo down, and that serious weaponry needed to be in exactly the right spot at exactly the right time, ready to fire.

Why would the Obama regime kill Americans? I think the question is, why WOULDN’T the Obama regime kill Americans? The Obama regime is composed of Marxist-Leninist psychopaths. A glancing, superficial survey of 20th century history shows one glaring fact above all others: MARXISTS MURDER PEOPLE WITHOUT COMPUNCTION. Marxists also hate Americans, by definition. Three tacks:

1. The men on board the Chinook may have been the same men who participated or had direct knowledge of the staged Bin Laden raid and were killed to permanently silence them. See my email exchange of May 5 above.

2. These DEVGRU men were killed to send a signal to the surviving DEVGRU men who carried out the Bin Laden raid to keep their mouths shut.

3. Certainly, the release of the unit identity of the dead within hours ­ before even family notification could have been made (which requires an IN PERSON visit to the family, remember) was an obvious bow to Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the entire muslim world. This event was INSTANTLY propagandized by the Obama media as “revenge” exacted for Bin Laden’s death. And remember, Bin Laden has been dead for many years. The raid of May 2 was pure stagecraft to distract the world from the release of the forged Obama birth certificate.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I can’t stand Alex Jones or any 9/11 truther. I have turned down dozens of interviews with such types. In fact, I am a huge believer in the Lex Parsimoniae, which is sometimes called “Occam’s Razor”, which states that the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. I teach this as part of my job, namely that the cattle markets are neither manipulated nor impossible to operate within at a profit. The reality is that the cattle industry participants do not make money because they are functionally incompetent. It is very, very simple. True conspiracies are very rare.

This entire Obama situation is a conspiracy, and I say that without the slightest hesitation. Obama is not a citizen of the United States, he is a puppet front for a cabal of Marxist-Leninsts including Soros, Ayers, Dohrn, Strong, Jarrett and many, many others. These people are enemies of the United States. These people are deeply psychologically damaged, and are capable of ordering people murdered in order to protect themselves and increase their own power. The three dead homosexual black men from Trinity United Church of Christ, Young, Bland and Spencer, all of whom were sexually linked to Barack Obama, were probably the first people specifically murdered by the Obama regime. The hundreds of Mexicans and the two American agents Terry and Zapata were murdered by Operation Fast and Furious in order to advance and increase the power of the Obama regime. These SEALS and the others on board that Chinook today were almost certainly betrayed and murdered by the Obama regime.

Why did the Obama regime immediately reveal the unit identity of the SPECOPS forces involved in the first place, despite the fact that DEVGRU was highly classified? Why was the personnel composition of the Chinook released IMMEDIATELY today after the helo went down ­ before even family notifications could be made? WHY? Why would you hand your enemy, Al Qaeda and the Taliban, a massive propaganda coup? WHY?

I’ll tell you why. Because the Obama regime IS THE ENEMY. They are Marxist tyrants who hold the lives of Americans not just cheap, but in scathing contempt. They will say anything, they will do anything, and they will murder ANYONE in order to protect themselves and consolidate and increase their power. Please, I beg you, for the love of God and all that is good in this world, read the history of the Soviet Union. Read about Lenin and Stalin and how they murdered people without any hesitation. Read about how Hitler was constantly ordering the murder of his own officers. Read about Communist China. Read about Mao and the millions upon tens of millions of murders he ordered. Read about the killing fields of the Communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia led by Pol Pot. PLEASE. Marxists MURDER PEOPLE. That is what they do. The Obama regime is MARXIST to the bone. If the Obama regime is not stopped, the 30 Americans murdered today in Afghanistan will be just the beginning. I promise you that.

Here, again, is the clip of Larry Grathwohl, who infiltrated the Weather Underground Marxist terrorist organization in the 1970s. The Weather Underground was founded by Obama’s political godfather, communist mentor (along with Frank Marshall Davis), murderer, and ghostwriter of “Dreams From My Father”, Bill Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn. In this interview, taped in 1980 while Obama was still just an unknown undergrad foreign scholarship student at Occidental College, Grathwohl describes the leadership of the Weather Underground (which is Ayers and Dohrn) discussing what will be done with the “unreformable, diehard capitalists” once they have overthrown the government of the United States. The answer is extermination in camps in the Southwest. The estimated total that would need to be killed? 25 million, which was 10% of the population at the time. Ayers & Dohrn already have overthrown the government of the United States via their puppet protégé, Barack Obama. They have guaranteed that the economy will collapse. The only thing left for them to do is suspend the Constitution and open the camps.

“Democracy is two wolves deciding what to eat for dinner.

Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.” -Thomas Jefferson-


53 posted on 08/22/2011 1:45:01 AM PDT by Noob1999
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To: hamboy

Remember, that the photo of all the losers was taken when the screen went black during the Seal raid, so no-one in the room could actually see what was happening on the ground.


54 posted on 08/22/2011 1:52:47 AM PDT by Noob1999
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To: MestaMachine

55 posted on 08/22/2011 1:53:08 AM PDT by UncleHambone ("Laughter is America's most important export." - Walt Disney)
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To: hamboy

bflr


56 posted on 08/22/2011 1:53:49 AM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: UncleHambone

It wasn’t *cool* at the time.


57 posted on 08/22/2011 2:11:37 AM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: Noob1999

Your post makes more sense than anything else on this thread.


58 posted on 08/22/2011 3:28:28 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder

OBL was in constant need of Blood Transfusions, and his disease was going to kill OBL in a matter of years, anyways.

I do not see OBL getting his blood transfusions in a cave.

Then again, that Libyan bomber had “Cancer” and was to die die within months. The hospitality of Libya seemed to have been a miracle cure.


59 posted on 08/22/2011 4:09:01 AM PDT by Steven Tyler
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

But it was reported that the SEALs killed in the helicopter crash were not the ones involved in Bin Laden’s killing.


60 posted on 08/22/2011 6:35:58 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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