[Dr. Eckleburg]

You were making the point that Calvinists did not believe a great many people are saved by Christ's sacrifice ("Isn't it a basic corollary of Calvinism that there aren't going to be that many Calvinists? The way is narrow, etc") and I showed you where you were wrong since Calvinists believe all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved which, thankfully, is a great number if not, one day, the majority of men and women.)

I would expect all Christians to know the difference between fatalism and God's ordination of all things.

WHAT IS FATALISM
by Benjamin B. Warfield

This is a sad state of mind that people fall into sometimes, in which they do not know the difference between God and Fate...

[who_would_fardels_bear]

From the essay:

"He melted into tears, not of pain, but of relief and joy. In that moment, he understood the difference between falling into the grinding power of a machine and into the loving hands of a father."

The problem that people have with Calvinism is not because they have mistaken God for a machine. The author believes this to be a reasonable analogy to help us distinguish supposed "fatalistic" events that are brought about by brute natural forces, and predestined events brought about by an intelligent God.

However, there is a major problem with this analogy. The story described talks of a man and a boy where the boy has the ability to freely respond to what the man does. The boy can be frightened at first to think that he has been swept up by the windmill, and then relieved to find out that he is being fairly punished by his father.

However in a Calvinistic world the boy can not choose to do anything, even with regard to his attitude toward the world. For in a Calvinist world EVERYTHING has been predestined. Not just who we are born as and who we are born to, but how we react and what attitude we take at every step of our lives.

The true analogy would be the end of 1984 where the socialistic state through torture and propaganda surrounding the false image of Big Brother finally convinces Winston Smith that two and two actually do equal five.

In this case the state not only determines what Winston Smith says, but also determines his attitude toward what he does. He loves Big Brother.

This is what those of us opposed to Calvinism dislike about Calvinism. Calvinists can't claim that just because we are led around by the nose by an intelligent and loving being that that is somehow better than being led around by the nose by a galavanting pig. If our every thought, emotion, and attitude has been predetermined from all time then we are just avatars in God's virtual reality sim.

[Petronski]

WHAT IS CALVINISM

This is a sad state of mind that people fall into sometimes, in which they do not know the difference between God and Calvin...