Posted on 12/30/2008 7:20:30 AM PST by pissant
As I have noted before, several mainstream media outlets reported that even World Net Daily hired a team of forensic document analysts who had reached the conclusion that the Barack Obama birth documents were authentic and that therefore agreed that Obama was born in Hawaii and a "natural born citizen".
When I first encountered these claims, I asked World Net Daily about them, several times. I did multiple searches to see if I could find the source of these allegations, but I came up empty-handed. Then Joseph Farah published a column that debunked a lot of these statements, or at least put them in context. However, I still did not have my hands on the original World Net Daily article that they were based on, so it was a bit difficult to evaluate the situation.
Now thankfully a reader has provided the World Net Daily article that was the source of these allegations. It is an article written by Drew Zahn, and published in the August 23, 2008 edition of World Net Daily, right after Berg had launched the first lawsuit.
In Zahn's article:
*The names of the Forensic Document Experts they hired are not revealed, nor are their qualifications, and no link to their reports are provided.
*It is claimed that children cannot lose their citizenship under US law. I am not sure about that; I will leave questions about that issue to the lawyers and the courts to rule on, not a journalist.
*Annenberg's "Political Fact Check" organization's website, "factcheck.org" is incorrectly listed as "factchecker.org"
*As Farah notes, the "forgery experts" that World Net Daily relied on never saw the "real document" but only the scans available on the internet.
*The Zahn article states that some on the internet purposely altered the images of the scanned documents, but provides no examples or links. This might very well have happened, but I think at this point it can be safely ruled out as an alleged source of problems with the factcheck.org and fightthesmears.com images, and others. These have been checked and rechecked and triple-checked and cross-checked and analyzed repeatedly at this point. Multiple experts are involved and affidavits have been signed in one court case after another.
*The statements about Obama travelling to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport might be conjectural, or puffery, or bluff. The Zahn article noted that World Net Daily had not been able to establish their reliability. However, lawyers hold certain things back. It is part of the game. If any of these two dozen cases move into the discovery phase, then a lot more will be revealed.
As Berg has revealed, when he first filed his lawsuit in August, he fully expected that he would be hit with a defamation suit by the Obama camp and that a certified copy of Obama's long form Hawaiian birth certificate would be made public. Neither of these events occurred.
Instead, Obama hired a team of lawyers, from Sandler, Reif and Young, PC (a lawfirm that has repeatedly defended "unindicted co-conspirators", the Council on American-Islamic Relations) to prevent the release of his birth records. And over the months, Obama spent considerable sums of money in one legal maneuver after another to keep his documents from being released.
In other words, Berg "called Obama out". That is, Berg "called Obama's bluff". The only way to tell if these discussions on the internet were just a dumb rumor or two about Obama's birth location and eligibility was to call Obama's bluff, which Berg did.
When Obama responded the way he did, then suspicions were raised. At that point, this turned from just another silly uncomfirmed rumor into a serious question.
Things have now been compounded after another two dozen lawsuits in various legal venues have been launched. In dealing with one complaint after another, Obama, through several teams of lawyers now, has stymied and blocked any and all attempts to probe into his true origins and eligibility.
The eligibility question is now far more visible. Several cases have reached the US Supreme Court, or various State Supreme Courts. The media has belatedly started to cover this story.
Obama's response to Berg's first legal action changed the minds of many, including me. I ignored this situation at first because it hardly seemed worthy of attention.
However, when I observed how Obama treated Berg's requests that he confirm his eligibility, I realized that there was something serious going on here. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
As they say in Washington, it is never the crime, it is the coverup. And Obama's efforts to cover something up raised my suspicions. I am sure this is true of many others as well.
An informal AOL survey with over 100,000 respondents shows that about 53 percent of those responding feel there are some unresolved questions about Obama's eligibility.
In other words, Berg's mission to call Obama's bluff has succeeded, wildly. Berg's lonely legal probing in August of 2008 was a tentative inquiry into some rumors. What it has evolved into is a much more substantial and widespread controversy.
A little too heavy on the Maybelline IMHO
Clearly, whatever these missing records would reveal is worse than the fallout (to date) from this simmering controversy.
And the author is right: the appearance of secrecy is the main cause of the problem.
Even if the records show a birth in Hawaii, there is SOMETHING there that must be very troublesome. People have speculated - what else can we do when the facts are withheld? - that perhaps Obama was only adopted by Obama Senior, and that he's not the natural father. In that case, there may be no eligibility problem but Obama’s credibility would be gone. Would all the people who bought “Dreams from my Father” be entitled to a refund? :)
I'm sure that whatever happens - and unfortunately I'm not convinced that we will ever definitely get to the bottom of this - enough of the media will run interference in any event.
Dr. Taitz isn't that old:
Depends on your point of view.
If a foreign nation decides to demand proof of his legitimacy before signing a treaty with him it’s going to do serious damage to America. Worse yet would be a country like Iran snatching some of our soldiers and claiming that they’re illegally operating under orders of an illegitimate leader.
Zero needs to clear this up before it does serious damage to the nation. I’d rather he prove me wrong than an enemy prove me right at the expense of America.
BS. Our nation does not formally recognize dual citizenship.
Even if Obama was not registered in Kenya AS WELL (for the purpose of dual or primary citizenship), he later moved to Indonesia where his mother married a man there. Did they become citizens of Indonesia?
Did he ever reapply for US citizenship?
What nation's passport did he use to travel to Pakistan?
These are lingering questions.
If a genuine birth certificate had been released (as opposed to a certificate of live birth), the courts would have held up the documents to say "the document has been released, there is nothing else to release!", rather than saying that the plantiff doesn't have sufficient need to see them.
FactCheck.Org is under that Annenberg Foundation that Obama and Ayers worked together for.
http://www.factcheck.org/about/
Our Mission
We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit “consumer advocate” for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.
The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.
You’d assume that after winning the election, Oinkbama would have nothing further to gain by continuing to withhold anything, assuming he had nothing to hide...
I've heard that there were several incidents of venereal disease in JFK's medical records.
Yeah, let’s decide whether she is right of not based on her looks. Excellent data analysis... but it’s to be expected from the certified whackos.
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His Ministry of Silly Walks sketch saw him adopt a variety of ungainly poses. And John Cleese was at it again as he kissed his much shorter girlfriend. The 6ft 5in Monty Python star had to splay his legs and bend his knees as he embraced Barbie Orr outside a restaurant in Santa Clarita, California. The difference in height isn't the only big gap between the two. At 27, American comedienne Miss Orr is 42 years Cleese's junior and young enough to be his granddaughter. [Cleese is 70] But she didn’t seem to have any complaints – or concerns that he might slip a disc – as she embraced him tightly in the car park, next to a bright yellow Mercedes. Cleese’s friend Michael Winner told the Mail the pair met a few weeks ago, while Cleese was on an acting job. ‘Barbie is John’s girlfriend. They’ve not just been on a couple of dates. He says that she’s funny and makes him laugh,’ he said. ... From Cleese and his girlfriend, the ministry of silly kisses |
On the issue of dual citizenship (this is an update to earlier statements from the State Department on this)
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
Dual Nationality
” However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.”
(which again raises the question of nationality when he lived in Indonesia with his mother AND second father).
“The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance. However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.”
No certificate of live birth was released, nor even an image of one. the Certificate of Live Birth *is* the "long form" birth certificate. The Certification of Live Birth is the short form, AKA the "abstract" version. The short form contains much less information than the long form. It also only shows the most recent data. Birth Certificates *can* be and are amended for a number of reasons, a legal name change, an adoption, or to change, remove or add the father's name (for example should DNA evidence reveal that Mom guessed wrong and the formerly purported father wishes his name *off* the certificate).
Additionally it does not show important information such as the birthplace and/or citizenship of the parents.
Short forms from some states are not sufficient for obtaining a passport, although AFAIK, Hawaii's is.
Please, if you are going to argue, get the facts and terminology strait.
Oh and while the US does not recognize dual citizenship, it also ignores it, for most purposes. If the US recognizes a person as a US Citizen, it doesn't matter to the US what other nations do. It does however discourage dual citizenship.
However many believe that one can be a Natural Born citizen of only one nation.
The article said — “However, when I observed how Obama treated Berg’s requests that he confirm his eligibility, I realized that there was something serious going on here. Where there is smoke, there is fire.”
It’s this exact thing that led me to post, many times before the election, that Obama was apparently covering up something. It appeared to be that way to me, back then. But, the problem was — I didn’t know what it was that he was covering up. It could have been something else other than an eligibility question.
And since Obama has been elected (popular vote and the Electoral College vote, plus the certification coming up in days) — it appears that the greater majority of the voting public didn’t think it had to do with eligibility and they didn’t care about anything else.
So, at this point in time — no one has ever produced in a court of law, any evidence that has been accepted and certified by that court and/or ever gotten any judgement by a court that Obama is not eligible under our Constitution.
Furthermore, some authorities (and I think courts, too) are (apparently by their actions) taking the position that the voters are the ones who “vet” the candidate.
That’s the situation we’ve got right now and soon, Obama will be sworn in as President.
—
Lastly, the article said — “In other words, Berg’s mission to call Obama’s bluff has succeeded, wildly. Berg’s lonely legal probing in August of 2008 was a tentative inquiry into some rumors. What it has evolved into is a much more substantial and widespread controversy.”
It does not appear to have succeeded very well to me. It only resonates among certain Obama haters and it doesn’t have any impact among any of our leaders or courts (and neither in the Supreme Court). It didn’t resonate among the voters and neither the Electoral College voters (even though they were notified of the problem) and it seems that it’s not going to matter to any one who has anything to do with Obama getting in office and being sworn in on January 20th.
That doesn’t appear to have “succeeded wildly” to me...
You said — “Even if the records show a birth in Hawaii, there is SOMETHING there that must be very troublesome. People have speculated - what else can we do when the facts are withheld? - that perhaps Obama was only adopted by Obama Senior, and that he’s not the natural father.”
I do think that there is “some problem” in those original records — and I suspect it is what you are saying. Who knows, maybe Malcolm X is Obama’s father and the records would show that... LOL..
That’s not good enough for many FReepers here, apparently... :-)
What can I say...
You said — “If a foreign nation decides to demand proof of his legitimacy before signing a treaty with him it’s going to do serious damage to America. Worse yet would be a country like Iran snatching some of our soldiers and claiming that they’re illegally operating under orders of an illegitimate leader.”
Those are contrived problems, only existing the heads of certain people and some writers of the Russian paper, Pravda... LOL...
They’re “contrived” because once Obama is *sworn in* — he *becomes* President, no matter what. And the other countries know that, too...
—
And then you said — “Zero needs to clear this up before it does serious damage to the nation. I’d rather he prove me wrong than an enemy prove me right at the expense of America.”
Apparently, from the way things are looking (in “real life”) he doesn’t have to clear it up. I would imagine that the courts and the vast and overwhelming majority of the leaders of our country (including President Bush, Cheney, McCain, Palin and the GOP) are taking the position that the voters are the ones who “vet the candidate” and thus, the voters have spoken.
That appears to be the *actual situation* that we are in, right now... (including the Supreme Court).
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