Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[bondserv]

Gen 16:7-14

7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?
14 Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.

Notice in verse 10 He says "I will multiply thy seed exceedingly". This is revelation of personal divine power.

Then in verse 11 He speaks of the LORD in the second person. Not I have heard, but the LORD hath heard.

In verse 13 she acknowledges that she has looked at God. The NIV renders Gen 16:13 as:
13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seen the One who sees me.”

Clearly not the Father, which scripture teaches no man has seen the Father. No man includes woman.

[jennyp]

Been-Gone-Not-Long-Enough placemarker.

Liked Port Angeles, we'll be back.

Oly Penninsula has the tallest trees I've ever seen!

Lake Crescent/Elhwa River area must be heaven for boaters & fishermen.

Kalaloch Lodge is a nice rustic lodge, with the best beach. (But the thick-as-fog, ethereal ocean mist wafting in may have colored my opinion.)

Why is Ocean Shores such a dead place? It has so much potential. Is it because it's cold & windy too much of the year? And why aren't any of the restaurants (except the overpriced Shilo Inn restaurant) open past 8:30pm?

Hmmm, crabs really do look like trilobites. Now I wonder why that could possibly be?

I doubt Hoquiam/Aberdeen was pretty even when all the mills were operating. But all the iron silohuette sculptures in nearby Raymond are a delightful touch.

There is logging going on, just not much. But logging trucks do go by, and they're carrying some nice looking logs harvested from their plantations. Each plantation is marked by a sign indicating when the last harvest was, when the new harvest was planted, and when it will be harvested. For instance: Harvested & replanted in 1986, next harvest in 2036. Talk about farming on a loooooong schedule!

Astoria is a cute town, with lots of potential. On the road to Long Beach (from Portland), a working town with a cool bridge at the mouth of the Columbia, and they're working hard to keep it a nice tourist town.

Had my first (of many more to come) oyster stews made with Willapa Bay oysters. I am in love!

Glad to see the Republic is still standing...

[PatrickHenry]

t used to be that these threads stayed on topic with the theory of evolution v intelligent design - or - the theory of evolution v. young earth creationism. Lately however the threads have become side-tracked on besmirching either Christian fundamentalism on the one hand, or Catholicism on the other. I would much prefer we simply agree to stay on the original topics, but if besmirching must go on, then I strongly recommend we define the terms - because it is inappropriate to equate Young Earth Creationism to Christian Fundamentalism. Likewise, it would be inappropriate to equate the Theory of Evolution to Catholism.

No one regrets the side-tracking more than I do. I would prefer to discuss evolution and anyone's scientific objections or alternatives to it. If the proposed objections and alternatives are religious in nature, as is often the case, I personally regard them as off-topic and entirely irrelevant in a science thread.

Unfortunately, some people around here regard that position to be "Christian-bashing," while I regard it as merely trying to stay on topic. Alas, things can all-too-easily degenerate when someone (often well-intentioned but horrendously ignorant) takes the position that "We good Christian folk have to shut down you eeeeevil science folk." It is most unfortunate when a thread swerves off in that direction.

[VadeRetro]

I am afraid you will have to ask Him that question when you meet Him.

All problems with "the Design Hypothesis" may be thus handwaved away. "We cannot second-guess the Designer."

However, as to design in general, once you understand the purpose of something and how it works it is easy for an intelligent designer adapt it to other situations.

"... Unless it's convenient to second-guess the Designer."

The "Designer" of ID does not act like a human designer. He is inefficient, clumsy, kloodgy, doesn't modularize or share design where it would be expected, but does borrow design where it is unexpected. When he made the bat, he apparently didn't borrow from the bird at all but from the tree-dwelling insectivores. Those are the parts he adapted. Odd. When he made the whales, he didn't borrow from the fish but from the land mammals. Again, odd. When he made the thylacine, he didn't borrow so much from the wolf as from the kangaroo, or something like it. Odd.

But we're not allowed to count any of that against ID, since we cannot know what this Designer was up to. Except when it's "easy." This isn't science. It's just an adaptation of Genesis via creationist pamphlets via rewriting to omit reference to the Christian/Jewish God. It predicts nothing, and tells us nothing about the history of life on Earth.

[VadeRetro]

Glad to see the Republic is still standing...

Well, sort of. No science on these threads anymore, tho. Freakin' Bible class.

[VadeRetro]

Too much troll-feeding. Virtual Ignore is our friend.

[ALS]

"If the proposed objections and alternatives are religious in nature, as is often the case, I personally regard them as off-topic and entirely irrelevant in a science thread."

Does that statement pretend to state you've not participated in "religious" discussions? Your piety falls on deaf ears all around because you have. Delights in personal attacks not excluded.
The only good news in all this whining is that you've effectively been reduced to not much more than a placemarker, which appears to be your just desserts for your part in the grand scheme of the christian bashing you suddenly imagine yourself above.

[Dataman]

God did not die on the cross.

Then what good was his death?

And what do you do with the scriptures that say Jesus WAS God?

[ALS]

Looks like #1844 is merely an admission of ignorance and hatred masked in disrespect for God


"Well, sort of. No science on these threads anymore, tho. Freakin' Bible class."

"Freakin'" isn't really the word you wanted to use, is it.

When people like you go out of their way to imply the Creator is a bumbling fool, stumbling through eternity with a corncob pipe, that not only makes you a bigger fool than we previously knew, but is an affront to all christians, who you automatically include in your profane insults.

If there is no God, then explain your obsession.

[VadeRetro]

Alas, things can all-too-easily degenerate when someone (often well-intentioned but horrendously ignorant) takes the position that "We good Christian folk have to shut down you eeeeevil science folk." It is most unfortunate when a thread swerves off in that direction.

One good thing about that happening on a thread about textbook selection in Texas is that people get to see the real face of ID, a supposedly secular movement within science. Oh, yeah!

[ALS]

"One good thing about that happening on a thread about textbook selection in Texas is that people get to see the real face of ID, a supposedly secular movement within science."

Your posts reveal the real face of evolution, an agenda driven hatred for God. If evolution was "just about science", such wouldn't be the case.

Evolution: A snake with a bullhorn.

[VadeRetro]

Too much troll-feeding. Virtual Ignore is our friend.

Should make it clear that I was referring to the state of the thread this morning and not your talking to Alamo-Girl. (Hugs, A-G!)

Two hundred posts since last night, virtually all off-topic.

[Junior]

Placemarker

[ALS]

click the pic

[ALS]

"Two hundred posts since last night, virtually all off-topic."

How many are yours bashing God and Christians? Are those "on topic"?

EVOCRITE noun [U]
when someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time

[gore3000]

I am not attacking other Christians.

Could have fooled me!

[balrog666]

Two hundred posts since last night, virtually all off-topic.

Yep. So-called-Christians infighting placemarker.

[ALS]

An atheist is now judging who are and who aren't Christians?

Your momma give you these ideas?

[PatrickHenry]

Automated Troll-Guard ^tm notification:
All trolls ignored.
Security settings on high.
Idiot tolerance level on low.
Troll traction index: 22%

[ALS]

Automated Evo-Guard ^tm notification:
All Evos auto-ignorant.
Evo inSecurity settings on high.
Evo IQ level on low.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations." - Patrick Henry