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To: Phaedrus; js1138; balrog666; Alamo-Girl; beckett; cornelis; Dataman; unspun
Science has gone as far as the Materialistic paradigm will take it (and then some!) and will continue to chase its tail so long as its mind remains closed.

Amen to that, Phaedrus! I wonder why it is so difficult to find "a common language" to express this insight in a manner that is "meaningful" to balrog666. He thinks I've been talking about angels and tooth fairies, apparently. But what I'm talking about should be obvious to any person who has studied the operations of his own consciousness. Which is: The thinker, the "observer," the self is not a material object. Some of the most obvious things, oddly enough, seem to be the most difficult to discern.

As Heraclitus put it, "Nature loves to hide." [Memo to unspun: Yes, God is subtle....]

I was thinking of posting a "thought experiment" that the philosopher Eric Voegelin conducted back in 1960. It's called "The Moving Soul." It takes its premises from physics, particularly general relativity. Maybe this might establish the "common language" that we continue to lack. Plus it's a real "dusey!" Got to go limber up my typing fingers....

213 posted on 03/08/2003 10:44:37 AM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
I wonder why it is so difficult to find "a common language" to express this insight in a manner that is "meaningful" to balrog666. He thinks I've been talking about angels and tooth fairies, apparently.

No, that was just an insightful comparison.;^)

To restate the idea, I think that subjective personal experiences like finding (a) faith, seeing a ufo, having a mystical dream, having a drug induced hallucination, or even having a encounter with a ghost or the tooth fairy do not lend themselves to objective examination after the fact and, without evidence, there is no real basis or purpose to any discussion of same.

216 posted on 03/08/2003 12:05:01 PM PST by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your post! Again, I agree with you and I do hope you post the "thought experiment!"

But what I'm talking about should be obvious to any person who has studied the operations of his own consciousness. Which is: The thinker, the "observer," the self is not a material object.

I wonder if some refuse to think about it simply because they are afraid? If so, then we have cause for hope because it would show some who refuse - already sense something lies beyond the physical, else why be afraid?

226 posted on 03/08/2003 1:26:54 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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