Thanks for the memories, but it's time for Christians to unite not fight

self | 3/2/2015 | two134711

[Grateful2God]

When I read Frankl the first time, I hadn't seen some of the photographs and films of the camps. They were a leveller, stripping people of their identity, and trying to squelch their dignity as human beings. Yet, for some reason, there was a feeling some had inside, a need to survive and somehow get through moment-by- moment. It was a victory of the human spirit over the devil incarnate, to me, anyway. The logotherapy, well, Frankl had been a psychologist, when the science was young. I didn't take psych until college, so I never really connected the two, to be perfectly honest.

Father Walter Cizek was imprisoned in Siberia for 20 years; he wrote a book called, "He Leadeth Me" where he described his experiences before and after he simply found acceptance and peace in the fact that nothing happens in this universe that is either permitted or ordained by God. I admit, his attitude was more edifying than logotherapy. Yet Frankl used his experience to help others, as well. Similar experiences, different points of view- an interesting contrast...

[Grateful2God]

Not all Muslims are extremist. Their perception of God is different, twisted, as you say my Catholic perception is. I do believe that the God of Abraham listens to a heartfelt prayer: a mother asking for help for a sick child, for example. He heard Hagar in the wilderness, did He not? She was not Muslim of course, but Egyptian, a pagan nation. Yet, for the sake of His promise to Abraham, God heard her prayer. God knows what is in His children’s hearts, and answers according to His Will.

[Grateful2God]

**Moreso the latter. I found the whole "finding meaning and purpose for yourself" practice a subjective exercise in creating idols for oneself, since Frankl believed in no objective purpose that could offer hope to his readers.**

I can see your point, but sometimes, after a traumatic experience, a person has to grab on to something, like a child crawling before he can walk. Some people feel they have no reason to live. Self-searching, to me, is more like the person grabbing on to a simple thing before his traumatized spirit can grasp what is more ethereal.

[CynicalBear]

>>Prayers are wasted?<<

Yes they are wasted when asserting an entity that doesn't exist.

[Resettozero]

Self-searching, to me, is more like the person grabbing on to a simple thing before his traumatized spirit can grasp what is more ethereal.

That is a symptom of one who is lost.

[Springfield Reformer]

Not all Muslims are extremist. Their perception of God is different, twisted, as you say my Catholic perception is. I do believe that the God of Abraham listens to a heartfelt prayer: a mother asking for help for a sick child, for example. He heard Hagar in the wilderness, did He not? She was not Muslim of course, but Egyptian, a pagan nation. Yet, for the sake of His promise to Abraham, God heard her prayer. God knows what is in His children’s hearts, and answers according to His Will.

Unresolved sin is a block to God answering our prayers, and the Muslim rejection of Jesus as the Son of God and risen Savior most certainly is sin

If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
(Psalms 66:18)

Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
(Isaiah 59:1-2)

The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
(John 9:30-33)

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
(Luke 18:10-14)

In this last example, the man who thanks God for his righteousness is, according to Jesus, exalting himself, and by so doing putting himself in a place where God will not hear him.  This is a person whose outward conformity to the one true religion did not protect him from the pride of self-accomplishment.  

But whom did God hear? Whom did God justify?  The one who came crying for mercy, and offering nothing of his own supply of good works, but relying totally and utterly on the grace of God, a man who had somehow come to the place in his life where, like the Picture of Dorian Gray, he had finally confronted the empty ugliness within.  He knew he had nothing to offer God.  If he would be justified, it would only be by God's grace, and that was his true heart cry, groveling for mercy before the King of the Universe. And that was heard, and he went home, not on a path to eventual justification, but justified.

As for Hagar, we have no definite information on her religion.  She had been rejected from the messianic line, true, but that does not mean with certainty that she was a pagan.  Furthermore, we learn in Genesis 21 that God had already decided to bless Ishmael, for being Abraham's seed.  And if you read the passage carefully, you'll see that Hagar did not in fact pray to God in her moment of crisis.  Instead, it was God Who initiated the relationship, hearing the child crying, and visiting Hagar by an angel, to say that the child would survive and become a great nation.  

So God can and does dispense His mercy as He sees fit, but the Scripture cannot be broken, as Jesus says, and if someone is in ongoing rebellion to God in some form, and especially if they are not in ignorance of the truth, but have simply rejected it, then why should a holy God give them the time of day?  In fact the Scriptures cited above and many others suggest He won't hear the prayers of such rebels, at least not until it is the prayer of repentance, the prayer for mercy.  That prayer He will always hear.  The door is always open for the prodigal son to come home.

Peace,

SR

[PeteePie]

Hmmm. Well, I am always up for singing the praises of Free Republic, forum of the Free!!!!

[NYer]

Did you read the comment? “Congratulations - I think you’re beginning to understand WVKayaker’s point-of-view! Your Catholic beliefs are erroneous and needed to be addressed.”

[Alex Murphy]

Did you read the comment? “Congratulations - I think you’re beginning to understand WVKayaker’s point-of-view! Your Catholic beliefs are erroneous and needed to be addressed.”

A courtesy ping would have been appreciated.

[Grateful2God]

"That is a symptom of one who is lost."

Chances are, it's a first step to being found. Only God knows truly what is in a person's heart... He works in His own way, in His own time.

[Grateful2God]

The sad part is that we may be stuck with Hillary for President. She feels the same way- about anyone who disagrees with the “liberal” agenda she wants to implement. She also feels we have to change our erroneous point of view- only it’s not going to be just Catholics she’s after...

[roamer_1]

Another dear favorite: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl, survivor of a Nazi concentration camp.

Wow, right? his reasoning about finding God in sorrow is simply stunning. Highly recommended to anyone at all, and especially those who have suffered loss...

[Resettozero]

Chances are, it's a first step to being found.

Sounded new-age-like and wandering around, is what I perhaps should have posted.

Yes, after a lost person has come to the saving Grace of God through the only door available to lost sinners, namely Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone, that soul is a new creation in Christ and no longer lost.

No one can be so lost that they cannot be found of the Lord, if he is one of the Good Shepherd's own, given to Him by the Father in Heaven.

(At this point, a Presbyterian could help explain better than I.)

[Resettozero]

...only it’s not going to be just Catholics she’s after...

The only way Hitlery would go after liberal Catholics is to seek their votes, which would be required for her to be elected President. She has nothing against the Catholic church and the RCC has plenty that she wants.

[caww]

......”The desperation from those who wish to take the focus off Christ and place it on other entities whether human or organization will intensify. Satan is ramping up as his time is getting short. Watch also for increased calls to “all get along” in the one world religion”......

You’re being kind by calling it “desperation”....though it may be what those who are encouraging these deceptions feel. But the actions to mislead and lead people away from the centrality of Jesus is by those already fully deceived...and they are caught in that web.... willingly.

[Grateful2God]

"My soul is thirsting for the living God."

I'm sorry you feel that way. When Mao Zedong's cultural revolution resulted in starvation death for millions of people, the Panchen Lama of Tibet wrote him a letter: for that offense, he was exiled for decades in a labor camp in Siberia, courtesy of Mao's communist compadres. Yes, he was a Buddhist, with a different idea of God. But he stood up alone for three people of China, at assn enormous price. Greater love hath no man than to give his life for his friends. His prayers may have been to a misconceived notion of the true God, but he gave his life away for the good of people he never even knew. He acted with true moral courage. I don't believe God would turn a deaf ear to such a man, anymore than I believe he is doomed to hell.

[Grateful2God]

alone for three people of China,

Sorry, should be "alone for 'the' people of China,"

[combat_boots]

I skip the religion threads for exactly the reasons you posted.

Only the old Civil War threads were as vicious.

[Grateful2God]

I disagree. Just curious though: if the race came down to Hill vs Mitt Romney, for whom, do you think, would our non-Catholic brethren vote?

Quite a conundrum, ain't it?

[Grateful2God]

It made a big impression on me, especially after seeing a really graphic film in school the following year. What impressed me the most was when he spoke of waking up in the morning and the person next to him was dead- he, like so many others would go back to sleep. He said that after awhile, that became life around the camp- it was part of daily life, they were beyond mourning and survival was the goal. What is it inside a person that could make them still want to live , despite the fact of being in hell on earth? That amazed me. Not to be judgemental, just a simple comparison: years prior, when the Crash of 1929 hit, people were jumping out of windows because they felt they couldn't go on-for them, the world they knew had ended. Then the camps, with torture and death all around, and these people had the drive to live. It's pretty amazing...
God bless you!