Traitor? Treason? [Robert E. Lee]

Old Virginia Blog ^ | 5/10/10 | Richard Williams

[Davy Buck]

"If Lee was a traitor (and I don't believe he was), he would be the only traitor for which a ship in the United States Navy was ever named. He would be the only traitor in Statuary Hall at the U.S. Capitol. He would be the only traitor whose image was used in a positive way to recruit military personnel to fight and win WWII. Quite an accomplishment for a "traitor", wouldn't you say. . ."

[lentulusgracchus]

From 1861 to the summer of 1864 his status was U.S. citizen.

No, he wasn't. Virginia left the Union on May 23, 1861, and by secession, all citizens of Virginia, of whom Lee was one, ceased to be citizens of the United States.

[Non-Sequitur]

also thought that Arkansas seceded illegally by vote of the legislature, but someone corrected me by saying that the State of Arkansas did have a plebiscite later -- I didn't find any corroboration for that, but I may have been wrong with my first assertion.

When you get right down to it they all seceded illegally. Or so the Supreme Court ruled.

[mojitojoe]

Because they live on the internet and use the FR search feature for things like civil war, Robert E Lee, etc. They keep search up in another window so they won’t be late or miss anything. Pathetic? Of course it is.

[r9etb]

I've told you before you're a dictionary fascist, and here you prove it by scoffing at the sovereignty of the People. You're no conservative. You've no use for originalism or the Framers and Founders. Hell, you aren't even an American in your own mind.

A silly little rant that demonstrates both your ignorance and your contempt of what the Founders actually did (as opposed to what you wish they had done).

Specifically, the Founders created a republican form of government, as opposed to a democracy.

The reason they did that, is because the Founders were rightly suspicious of "the People" forming a tyranny of the majority.

As Mr. Madison put it,

AMONG the numerous advantages promised by a well constructed Union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate, as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice. He will not fail, therefore, to set a due value on any plan which, without violating the principles to which he is attached, provides a proper cure for it. The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into the public councils, have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished; as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which the adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations.

You can read the full intent of the Founders in Federalist 10.

I know I should be ashamed of intruding on your little fantasy by introducing primary sources ... but really, I can't work up too much sympathy for you and your stupid neoconfederate ideas.

[Non-Sequitur]

No, he wasn't. Virginia left the Union on May 23, 1861, and by secession, all citizens of Virginia, of whom Lee was one, ceased to be citizens of the United States.

He was, at best, a dual citizen. But the fact is that there was no confederate states to grant him citizenship.

[lentulusgracchus]

So Lincoln appointed Chase in 1864 because he knew there would be a secession case to be decided 5 years later? Damn.

Yes. Of course he did. Lincoln was a lawyer. He knew what Supreme Court votes were worth, to his need to be vindicated in what he'd done.

Your claim that the case was decided on biased politics and not the law is clearly false.

Chase's opinion was based on biased politics, and so my claim is correct.

[mac_truck]

More like bootless.

Is that a legal term? If so what does it mean?

[Repeat Offender]

They brought a defamation of character suit (civil) against Murtha...... a Federal dipsh#t judge dismissed the charges. The inJustice Department was working against the case.

There was no hope of going after "heavier" or criminal charges after that.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/28/murtha-will-have-to-testify-in-defamation-case/

And, as an aside.... just because corruption prevents charges of treason from being filed, doesn't make your list any less treasonous.

I'm sure you can look at some of my posting history and figure out why I personally despise murtha......(and no, I am not a Haditha Marine).

[lentulusgracchus]

At least in Texas there is an element of shame about their role in the Confederacy.

Oh, really? Speak for yourself.

[Non-Sequitur]

Because they live on the internet and use the FR search feature for things like civil war, Robert E Lee, etc.

You do well over 70 posts on Monday alone and we're the ones living on the internet?

[mojitojoe]

I see you don’t deny it, you just make some smart ass statement. GO ahead, deny it. I dare you to deny it. Deny that you are pro-choice.

[Non-Sequitur]

Yes. Of course he did. Lincoln was a lawyer. He knew what Supreme Court votes were worth, to his need to be vindicated in what he'd done.

Brilliant...compassionate...patriotic...and clairvoyant as well. Lincoln definitely was our most impressive president.

[central_va]

He was, at best, a dual citizen. But the fact is that there was no confederate states to grant him citizenship.

Hitler didn't take away a countries sovereignty prior to conquering it making your historical mentor look reasonable. Hell, Der fuhrer would even allow Reich occupied countries the dignity of keeping their nationality, you can't even allow that you are a < expletive deleted >

[Non-Sequitur]

I see you don’t deny it, you just make some smart ass statement. GO ahead, deny it. I dare you to deny it. Deny that you are pro-choice.

Let me know when you get to 'double-dog dare you'.

[lentulusgracchus]

[Me, erring] It was just Lincoln's men who didn't .....

I stand corrected by Non-Sequitur. Assuming he isn't fibbing his ass off again.

[Non-Sequitur]

Hitler didn't take away a countries sovereignty prior to conquering it making your historical mentor look reasonable. Hell, Der fuhrer would even allow Reich occupied countries the dignity of keeping their nationality, you can't even allow that you are a < expletive deleted >

First come the Hitler comparisons. Can the mouth-foaming be far behind?

[Non-Sequitur]

I stand corrected by Non-Sequitur.

Then look it up for yourself. There's this thing called the 'internet' that has all sorts of fascinating information on it. You might try it out some time.

Assuming he isn't fibbing his ass off again.

That would put me in league with you.

[Retired Greyhound]

Um, most Texans I know are remorseful about the state’s slave-owning history.

If you’re aren’t, then I don’t speak for you.

[mojitojoe]

Don’t forget these;
HATES:
Texas
Army
Baptists
South
Southerners
Limbaugh
Hannity
Beck
Palin
Snakes
Bugs
Bush Sr.
Bush Jr.
SUV’s
Any mention of secession
states rights

But he does love his Jon Stewart and big Federal government

Feel free to add to the list.

I think he is on the wrong forum...or is he? Is he here because he finds it more fun to spread propaganda and fight, call FReepers names, than to just agree with the KOS and DUmmie kiddies?

[mojitojoe]

Don’t forget these;
HATES:
Texas
Army
Baptists
South
Southerners
Limbaugh
Hannity
Beck
Palin
Snakes
Bugs
Bush Sr.
Bush Jr.
SUV’s
Any mention of secession
states rights

But he does love his Jon Stewart and big Federal government

Feel free to add to the list.

I think he is on the wrong forum...or is he? Is he here because he finds it more fun to spread propaganda and fight, call FReepers names, than to just agree with the KOS and DUmmie kiddies?

Amended:

I forgot one:
Fox News