Posted on 09/03/2006 5:18:40 AM PDT by Man50D
Abolish the federal income tax!
No more taxes on savings and investments!
A "Fair Tax" can completely fund the federal government, Social Security and Medicare!
You control how much you spend!
So what are we waiting for?
You, the taxpayers of America burdened with an income tax that is costly, wasteful and sinking America into inevitable bankruptcy. All current forms of federal taxation would end! You would keep 100 percent of your paycheck. You control how you spend your paycheck. It's your money. You make the decisions as to how you want to spend your money.
The Fair Tax would create more jobs and give the USA a level playing field when selling overseas. United States Senator John Linder (R-Georgia) is sponsoring the "Fair Tax Act of 2005." If enacted by Congress, it would accomplish all of the above. Simple. Easy. And affordable.
It's the best way to downsize government without disrupting the economy.
To join the "Fair Tax" movement in America, just sign the "Economic Freedom & Fairness" Petition supporting forward-thinking solutions. Go to www.grassfire.net and liberate the working class of taxpayers. Grassfire is trying to give the working class the same kind of freedom America's founders gave to those who joined the American Revolution in 1776 with the "Declaration of Independence." We won the Revolutionary War, but have lost our country since the 16th Amendment (income tax) became "Law" in 1913.
(Excerpt) Read more at bayshorenews.com ...
Totally wrong target, but he hit a bullseye on the BIG FAIRTAX MYTH target.
"And these embedded taxes are being paid by the person purchasing the good or service-- because if they weren't buying it, then the good wouldn't be made and the service wouldn't be performed, and no taxes would be paid. "
And, as has been shown in most instances (even this remarkably unique one), the actual income tax involved due to embedded tax is FAR less than would be the equivalent FairTax.
Peddle your story somewhere else where they haven't figured out yet that you are a congenital liar.
te = (ti/(1-ti)) - and note that the tax exclusive rate (te) is the result of the calculation using only ti.
OR, put another way:
Cash Register Price = Item Price + (Item Price(0.23/(1-0,.23))).
One of us is "misrepresenting facts" all right ... but it's not me. The formula is well known and widely used.
I just posted the formula. And people will use the "times 29.87% formula" to calculate the tax, not the inclusive 23% math. And with the inclusive amount of 33%, the actual FairTax exlusive amount would be 50%.
(0.333/(1-0.333)) = 50%
When you factor reality into the calculation, that is a much better estimate of the FairTax rate.
Under the fair tax the lawyer still makes his 90K and the drug dealer still makes 3.2 mil but, the lawyer buys a new BMW for 50K and pays $11,500 in taxes. However, the drug dealer (this one just happens to live in West Palm Beach) buys a new yacht that cost $500,000 and has a sales tax of $115,000.
According to Boortz, a $10,000 car would still cost $10,000 with the fair tax added and hidden tax removed (interview with Sean Hannity).
What's to prevent the drug dealer from buying his yacht outside the US? Or the lawyer from buying a slightly used BMW; lots of them available around here along with SUVs (a Honda would be more difficult to find).
I've shown several examples of the more normal consumption (rather than the drug dealer hypothetical) where the tax contribution due to embedded taxes is far less from the income tax than from the FairTax. From memory, on the purchase of a $100 item, the income tax contribution would be about $3.75 at a 15% profit and a 25% income tax rate. Under the FairTax, the tax contribution would be $23.00.
I've been confused about that and after doing some research realized that the receipt will show the cost of the item, the total with the 29.87% tax included, and show the amount of tax paid expressed as the 23% tax inclusive rate.
This is blatantly dishonest!
Just to clarify. this poster is talking about a $38,500 pre-tax BWM with $11,500 FairTax added to bring the total price to $50,000 in case anyone is confused.
Under the FairTax, the BMW that costs $50,000 now would have at most 8% removed from its cost to bring the pre-tax price down to $46,000, and then the FairTax (@29.87%) brings the total price to $59,740.
If an accurate higher FairTax rate is used, the car will be over $65,000. This is the same car that would be $50,000 now. And yes, you will need to finance the new higher amount.
Only possible if wages are decreased to current take-home levels.
You calculations are all totally wrong.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave...
The drug dealer, through his lawyer, paid over 30% in taxes today. Without the drug dealer, the lawyer would have paid nothing.
I could have just as easily said the drug dealer, through the yacht dealer, paid X percent of $500,000 in embedded taxes today. That "X percent" averages 22%. What we would collect under the Fair Tax is anybody's guess.
My point is that we're collecting tax on the drug dealer today. True, we're not collecting income tax on the drug dealer's $3.2 mil -- but we won't be collecting the Fair Tax when the drug dealer earns that $3.2 mil either.
Unless you're telling me that the drug dealer is going to add the Fair Tax to the price of his drugs, then send that money in to the federal government?
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To make the following example simpler, let's assume the embedded taxes are 23% instead of 22%. Humor me.
Existing system:
Taxes collected from the drug dealer today: $115K (embedded) through his yacht dealer.
Taxes collected from lawyer today: $30K (actually financed by the drug dealer) + $11,500 (embedded) on the BMW (actually financed by the drug dealer).
Income Tax paid by the drug dealer: $0.
Total collected from the drug dealer today: $156,500.
Fair Tax system:
Taxes collected from the drug dealer: $115K through his yacht dealer + $20.7K through his lawyer.
Taxes collected from lawyer: $11,500 on the BMW (actually paid by the drug dealer).
Fair Tax collected by the drug dealer for drugs and sent to the federal government: $0.
Total collected from the drug dealer: $147,200.
We collect less from the drug dealer under the Fair Tax than we do today. Go figure.
And as with the Tax Panel, you don't get to rewrite the FairTax bill to suit your own debating tactics. Your (and the Panel's) guesses are both based upon unjustified tax base shrinking plus massive inflation of evasion (twice the current income tax amount) as well as other liberal think tank "stunts".
With the FairTax, the taxpayer complies with the FairTax law when he buys the thing involved and receives the receipt. The disingenuous attempt to insert a loss of 30% of taxes at that point due to "evasion" is not what would be called "forthright".
After all, evasion occurs when taxpayers do not pay taxes that are legally due.
Boortz is neither the author or a cosponsor of either FairTax bill.
If they want to figure out if they have enough money to pay for an item before the receipt spits out, they'll certainly have to do the math. What planet do you live on?
Perhaps if you'd read the bill you'd be less confused.
But ... but ... who's going to finance a car for $65,000 that's only worth (new) $50,000? The bank will lose money if the purchaser defaults. And you know as soon as that new car is driven off the lot it's worth less than $50,000.
You can't even get a simple excerpt right without lying. I didn't even use the term "the people" in my post you were responding to. I used the word "people". Not that it matters, except to show that you aren't even truthful about things that are meaningless.
Without knowing that, it isn't possible to determine what the BMW cost him, but merely what its cash register receipt price was. Those two amounts will typically be quite different and the effective FairTax rate for most taxpayers will be a good deal less than their effective tax rate under the income tax.
The only accurate FairTax rate is the tax inclusive amount specified in the bill which is presently 23%.
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