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To: b_sharp
All God did to create the universe and everything in it was to speak. God using power natural to Himself is not magic. Magic is what men use in the form of spells and charms to manipulate nature for their own benefit and is expressly forbidden by God in the Bible.

Religion on the other hand worships a supernatural entity that not only breaks those laws but supposedly created them along with life, the earth and the universe.

What does it matter if God on occasion manipulates the natural order of things that He set up, from time to time? He has the perogative to do so whenever He pleases. And that is not called magic but miracles, which is not the same thing. Miracles are used to verify the existance and power of God to unbelieving people and, to the best of my knowledge, are almost always beneficial to people.

1,363 posted on 02/21/2006 7:59:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
All God did to create the universe and everything in it was to speak. God using power natural to Himself is not magic. Magic is what men use in the form of spells and charms to manipulate nature for their own benefit and is expressly forbidden by God in the Bible.

Interesting theological point. How does an external observer tell the difference between God's Miracles and a Shaman's magic? Both defy physical law.

What does it matter if God on occasion manipulates the natural order of things that He set up, from time to time? He has the perogative to do so whenever He pleases. And that is not called magic but miracles, which is not the same thing. Miracles are used to verify the existance and power of God to unbelieving people and, to the best of my knowledge, are almost always beneficial to people.

So what is the point of science if God can arbitrarily step in and undermine it? And who says magic isn't beneficial?

If someone is on a plane and God just swats it out of existence, what is the point of aerodynamics? Don't say that God is always benign because we see Him killing many -- directly or by proxy -- in The Old Testament.

1,366 posted on 02/21/2006 8:08:58 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: metmom
"All God did to create the universe and everything in it was to speak. God using power natural to Himself is not magic. Magic is what men use in the form of spells and charms to manipulate nature for their own benefit and is expressly forbidden by God in the Bible.

Why is the use of 'supernatural' power by man in a different category than the 'supernatural' power used by God?

"What does it matter if God on occasion manipulates the natural order of things that He set up, from time to time? He has the perogative to do so whenever He pleases. And that is not called magic but miracles, which is not the same thing. Miracles are used to verify the existance and power of God to unbelieving people and, to the best of my knowledge, are almost always beneficial to people.

That wasn't my point. If there is a God, something I find certain, he can do as he will, we are powerless to stop him. My point is that creationists are willing to accept all sorts of magical thinking as pertains to God all based on simple here-say evidence yet completely close their minds when confronted by the well researched and verified evidence used in the ToE. Much of the ToE's conclusions are based on the normal scientific methodology of inferences based on verified mechanisms, yet the anti-evos refuse to accept those inferences, the verifications and indeed the mechanisms themselves. They use their our inferences, which are based on very questionable premises, to 'disprove' the observations of scientists.

Accept the supernatural, deny the observable and its logical consequences by using evidence even more questionable than that found for evolution. This makes no sense to me.

1,535 posted on 02/22/2006 10:34:32 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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