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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; xzins; P-Marlowe; Corin Stormhands; ...
OP, you know I love you, but c'mon! We've already demonstrated repeatedly that faith is not a work:
For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." But to him working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. --Romans 4:3-5

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. --Ephesians 2:8-9

So either Paul didn't know what he was talking about and was self-contradictory, or else you guys don't understand Paul. I'm putting my money on the latter.

The "work of faith" then is not faith itself as if it were a work, but the good works that come out of our faith, our labours of love. This is entirely consistent with the rest of Scripture:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them. --Ephesians 2:9

Even so, if it does not have works, faith is dead, being by itself. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble. But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Do you see how faith worked with his works, and by the works faith was made complete? --James 2:17-22

If Calvinism is truly reduced to distorting faith to be a work, rather than faith being the fount from which all our good works flow, then it has truly given up even the pretense of being Biblical. Somehow, I doubt that's what John Calvin intended.
650 posted on 01/26/2005 7:38:29 AM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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To: Buggman; Corin Stormhands; xzins; P-Marlowe
If Calvinism is truly reduced to distorting faith to be a work, rather than faith being the fount from which all our good works flow, then it has truly given up even the pretense of being Biblical. Somehow, I doubt that's what John Calvin intended.

Amen.

Yet, 'faith' is a work in a sense of what we told to do (Rom.6:16) as servants (Lk 17:10)not making God a debtor, but we are ourselves are in debt.(Rom.1:14)

Calvinists want to make God the only one 'doing' anything but the fact is, if that is the case, then their Christian walk (doing something) is all of God with no responsiblty on them to make any decisions (Rom.6:16, 1Thess.5:19, Eph.4:30), which would mean that it is God willing that they sin when they do sin.

723 posted on 01/26/2005 12:39:08 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: Buggman; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Corin Stormhands
OP, you know I love you, but c'mon! We've already demonstrated repeatedly that faith is not a work....

Do you Affirm, or Deny, that True Faith involves a Volitional Mental Action, initiated by a Decision of Will?

Any "Action" of any sort whatsoever is, by nature, a "Work" (an initiation of activity towards a specified purpose).

840 posted on 01/28/2005 4:10:02 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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