Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe
The trouble with this approach is it gives God a "hand-off" approach. This is anything but what the Bible teaches. God is actively involved in human affairs.
God is in control. God's Will will be done. The future (world and ours) is set and decided according to God's plan. We live, work, play, breathe, and die within this plan according to God's sovereign grace.
We need God's view, not our human view.
You asked me for scripture. I gave them to you. What you do with them is up to you.
I am not ignoring what you sent me, just simply saying they do not negate the scriptures I sent you, as much as you would like that to be the case.
I think I've mentioned somewhere back on one of my earlier posts that one cannot ignore the fact that baptism is a sacrament of the church and an important one. Be that as it may I DON'T believe it's what saves you. I hope you're not suggesting that! You may wish to provide clarification for jkl1122 who believes you're siding with him.
I actually said that I don't agree with his view on baptism, just that I agree with him believing it is important we consider baptism. Did you actually read what I said?
***One could rightly say that from God's eternal, out-of-time perspective, our election is predetermined, since to God all time is already laid out and there are no surprises (which again is why the Bible says that His predestination is based on His foreknowledge). But from the human POV (which God also takes from time-to-time, interestingly enough), the one we operate in and make decisions in, the future is yet open, and we have choices to make. From the Bible, one can see both views presented.***
If, and I really do mean IF, we accept what you say as Biblically accurate, then please explain to me why there are so many people called Arminians who think it better to focus on the "human POV," instead of the Divine?
Given your opinion in the matter, I think I'll stay focused on seeing things from God's POV. The rest of you are free to stay man focused if you think that better.
In the service of the Lord,
Christian.
New Covenant; Old Covenant.
Just how many ways are there to have one's sin washed away and is this like the many gospels that some think the Bible teaches?
Christian.
You've proven our point, Corin.
Of course our hope and our charity are works, just like our faith is a work. We possess faith, believe in Scripture, hope in Christ, and act charitably because the Holy Ghost enables us to bear good fruit.
But we are saved, not by our good works, but by God's grace alone.
The Old covenant is the covenant that God had with the Nation of Israel. The church that was founded on Pentecost, as described in Acts, is under the New Covenant, and is covered with the blood of Christ. The New Covenant is what we are under today.
You mean this:
"I believe that your intent is to demonstrate your points biblical. That tells me that you are a bible Christian and not a philosophical christian. Those verses are in the bible, and like you, we should all take them seriously and put them in a biblical context. We might still arrive at different places, and we might debate one another over how we interpreted the Bible, but, fortunately, we are all using God's Word."
Just because we all are using God's Word doesn't mean some have it correct. This sounds like some big ecumenical hug. You could say the same about a number of cults who claim to use God's Word. It's interesting how much you're willing to point out the Calvinist "errors" but no others.
The basic fact of the scriptures and one that has been the staple of the church for centuries is that if you're relying upon your own works to get you into heaven then you've missed the boat. I'm not passing judgement but people need to examine themselves toward this principle.
***The Old covenant is the covenant that God had with the Nation of Israel. The church that was founded on Pentecost, as described in Acts, is under the New Covenant, and is covered with the blood of Christ. The New Covenant is what we are under today.***
Hmmm! So, how does this answer my questions?
Just how many ways are there to have one's sin washed away and how many gospels are there?
Christian.
You answered my question, but used what xins wrote. It seems you are getting confused. As for not relying on works to get to Heaven, that is true when you are talking about meritorious works, or works of the flesh. However, many denominations belief that confession and repentance are required for salvation, as do I, but they don't consider them works. Yet, they consider baptism a work, because it doesn't fit in their denominational doctrine. Baptism is no more of a work than confession or repentance, and actually is less of one, since the work is being done by the baptizer and God.
OK-who posted #705? When I typed my response it showed xzins. After it was posted it showed jkl1122 although the text sounds like xzins. This is the first time I've ever seen this happened.
Under the New covenant, which we are under, there is one way to have your sins washed away. The Bible says that is when a sinner realizes what they are, repents of their sin, confesses that Jesus Christ is God's Son, and is baptized for the remission of their sins. Also, there is only one Gospel. The Bible clearly states that God is no respector of persons. Also it clearly states that there is one faith, one baptism, one body. How can there be more than one Gospel if there is one faith and one body?
I posted #705.
***Also it clearly states that there is one faith, one baptism, one body. How can there be more than one Gospel if there is one faith and one body?***
Well, if there is only one baptism, then how come you are telling us all about different baptisms for the washing away of sin?
Christian.
No more then does Islam which is the fastest growing religion in the world.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine and heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away from the truth and shall be turned unto fables (2Tim.4:3-4)
I never said there was different baptisms. Please show me where I said that. There is one baptism, and that is the water baptism of someone who believes the Word of God, repents of their sins, confesses Christ as the Son of God, and is baptized for the remission of their sins.
As I said way back when, I believe baptism is extremely important. It is a sacrament of the church instituted by Christ. I believe the Holy Spirit lays it on every true believers heart to become baptized and it is part of our salvation story.
It is a work, but a work bearing good fruit which come from God's moving us by His Holy Spirit. I've never met a professing Christian who didn't want to be baptized. Those who claim to be Christians but don't wish to be baptized are suspect and I have met plenty of people who were baptized and renounced the faith.
I don't believe baptism is what regenerates you for regeneration occurs before baptism. Like Cornelius people WANT to be baptized because they believe. They don't pop up from the water and then believe. I don't know how much plainer this could be.
I never said you believe after baptism, it is obviously before. It really seems like you are trying to make it sound like I am saying something that I have not. You have done this several times, and I find it to be very mean spirited.
In every verse where baptism and salvation are both mentioned, many of which I have already listed, the Bible lists baptism before salvation. Why do you think that is?
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