Confederate States Of America (2005)

Yahoo Movies ^ | 12/31/04 | Me

[Caipirabob]

What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?

While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.

Stars with bars:

Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.

Some things are better left dead in the past:

For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.

Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.

Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:

So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?

Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.

This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.

Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.

At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.

So what do you think of this movie?

[lentulusgracchus]

Cite and quote one of us where we said any such thing.

[lentulusgracchus]

Meanwhile, the Pequots and Wampanoags are still dead.

Point?

[lentulusgracchus]

And now you're in trouble......Oh, stannnnd......Got us a Yankee rationalizer over here..... who's tap-dancing around some early Massachusetts massacres.

So far he's trying to wiggle off the hook by complaining about the writer. (Okay, Howard Zinn is a Commie toad......but is the story true?!)

[lentulusgracchus]

I'm worried about Lentulus. I get the feeling his monkeys or chickens got a hold of his keyboard while he was out this morning and couldn't stop pecking out words and throwing dung.

Now, be nice.

I promise to close my keyboard this morning so the chickens can't get it again. Probably need a new keyboard anyway....my letter "a" key broke yesterday, it's slouching in there like a drunken sailor and giving me extra "a" characters randomly.....space bar already had a problem, and nine of the keys are totally illegible. That's what >9000 posts on FR will do for you.....and a ton of e-mail.

Later, guys.

[M. Espinola]

"What in the hell has the civil rights movement got to do with Civil War history?"

The continuing interconnection seems to has conveniently escaped you.

From slavery, then Jim Crow, to Southern state enforced segregation, dating from 1865 until 1965, when new Federal laws were enacted protecting all Americans right to vote, enforced with troops & federal marshals.

Heritage .....not hate?

[lentulusgracchus]

The continuing interconnection seems to has conveniently escaped you.

You've got it going the wrong way.

The Civil War affects Jim Crow.

The civil rights movement doesn't affect what happened during the Civil War, so the story of the Civil War only changes after the civil rights movement, if you are doing political tinkering with the Civil War story for modern political purposes! Get it now?

[lentulusgracchus]

You come closer to admitting the true nature of southern hysteria in the winter of 1860-61, than do your brain-washed comrades.

Well, tell us what you think it was.

[M. Espinola]

Zinn, Duke & the neo-confeds have one common link, inventing history.

..."misusing that flag"? Funny that, does not Duke reside in the state of Louisiana?

"Accordingly, no Confederate can, by definition, be a Republican or Democrat, or a member of any other U.S. political party. It is NOT our government, and it's flag is NOT our flag." quoted from, "Who is a true Confederate? by Robert McMullen (Chairman, SIP of Arkansas) Sources are in thread #2,847

How about commenting on the above rebelism, plus the others from the same thread?

[lentulusgracchus]

Thanks to Lincoln and his adherence to the principles of the Declaration, following in the footsteps of Washington himself.

Cue the violins. The third-graders will now bow their heads for the mandatory Honest Abe solemnities.

[M. Espinola]

The twist goes on ....."From slavery, then Jim Crow, to Southern state enforced segregation.."

Are a new set of eyeglasses in order as well?

[M. Espinola]

There's not enough space! LOL

[stand watie]

how much do you think the slaves,TENS of THOUSANDS of whom were owned by damnyankee corporations & individuals, enjoyed their plight?

do you condemn the slavers in the NORTH, too??? or is it ONLY southern slaveowners that you dispise???

free dixie,sw

[4CJ]

Not responding to the direct treasonable quotes I posted ... What is your position on the following quote? "Accordingly, no Confederate can, by definition, be a Republican or Democrat, or a member of any other U.S. political party. It is NOT our government, and it's flag is NOT our flag.

The quotes that you are so all fired up about are not mine. I personally don't care how you get your jollies, for all I know you have a turban on your head, or wear Depends.

Myself, and no one else here owe you, or anyone else any explanation for anything said by someone other than ourselves. Personally, I think you are stooping to race-baiting, just as I would be doing if I called you a "Sand Nazi". All you are doing is attempting to have posters lose their cool, to satisfy some lust deeply embedded within you. To me, you have an obvious difficultly fighting facts and carrying on a reasoned discourse, so you habitually resort to personal attacks. Let's go through a few 'causes' of the war, alleged or otherwise:

• The Union allowed slavery, each state RATIFYING the Constitution agreed that slavery was LEGAL. Therefore, all attempts to paint ONLY Confederates as seceding over slavery are moot, as they already had LEGALIZED slavery.
• Lincoln, and the Federal Congress (comprised primarily of Yankees - remember seven Confederate states and their delegations had left) offered a constitutional amdmendment making slavery PERMANENT - FOREVER - NEVER a chance of it ending. The Confederacy still refused to rejoin the union.
• Lincoln and the Black Republicans, and Free-Soilers, had made it known that in their opinion, the territories were to be reserved for WHITES only. Lincoln et al stated over and over again that they wanted no competition from blacks, they wanted no amalgamation of blacks, and desired the colonization/repatriation of blacks. There were barely a handful of blacks in the territories, which had been open for decades, so EXPANSION Of slavery was not the issue or pressing concern for Confederates.
• Yankee abolitionists were attempting to foment a race war, by inciting slaves to escape, or to rise in rebellion a la Haiti. The traitor/murderer John Brown was praised almost universally in the North (I guess Yankees praise Charles Manson as well) despite the killing of innocent Southerners. Down here, "John Brown" is an expletive. Despite the fact that the slaves in question would be slaughtering the yankee's American brethren, they saw this as preferable than life with Southerners, and would be used as an excuse to repatriate/deport blacks.
• Despite protests and calls for emancipation of blacks, most states - Northern and Southern - had instituted Black codes - to limit the rights of free blacks to migrate. The problem was that if blacks were freed, there was no northern state willing to accept them, so Yankees still wanted blacks to remain in the south or be deported.
• Calls for emancipation of blacks began en masse after the end of the legalized slave trade. Yankees sold the bulk of their slaves, or emancipated them gradually - new born slaves still had to remain slaves for decades. Yankees demanded immediate emancipation of Southern blacks, which would have devastated the Southern economy. The northern economy, OTOH, was PROTECTED by tariffs - soon to be TRIPLED by the Morrill tariffs.
• Southerners had protested against high tariffs since the founding. Admittedly, the parties agreed that protectionist tariffs would be allowed to allow American interests to mature enough to compete with European manufactures, but it wasn't meant to be a permanent Yankee welfare system. The protests over high tariffs continued for decades, and almost every protest against the tariffs came from Southerners - the ones whose pockets were touched. The protests certainly didn't come from Yankees who were making fortunes at the expense of their Southern brethren. Even today, one doesn't hear millions of welfare recipients clamor for LOWER taxes - such would deprive them of their booty. The protests and calls to reduce taxes come from those who PAY THEM.
• In his first inaugural speech, Lincoln cut to the chase - the seceded states HAD to pay the tariffs, but otherwise, no INVASION would be made. IT WAS ABOUT THE MONEY.

So in a nutshell, slavery was legal, the yankees didn't want blacks west, north or south, Lincoln et al offered PERMANENT slavery as inducement for the Confederacy to rejoin. THEY REFUSED. Maybe if Lincoln and Congress had compromised over TAXES/TARIFFS, then the confederacy might have been willing to rejoin.

Trying to peg me as one who promotes big government will not function either. Where did I ever state the following: You continue to paint those that advocate lower taxes and limited government, the right of self government... (?)

See above. Southerners were the ones advocating limited government and lower taxes - not yankees.

How can the hardcore neo-confederates crowd be considered a 'race of people'

If you actually READ what I wrote ['You attempt to paint an entire class of people as dirt'] I made no mention of Southerners as a race of people, I made reference to Southerners as a class of people.

Please, do not not mention Carter Clinton, Al, Jesse, in the same sentence with anything connected with my beliefs.

I am aware the truth must hurt, but it also must be confronted.

Now one last comment, I bear you no malice, no hatred of any kind. I am a conservative, I want the federal government out of everything it's not constitutionally delegated. That means DEFENSE of this republic, against Islamic terrorists and ILLEGAL immigrants pouring through our borders. That means ending the Department of HUD, Education, Energy etc, and federal funding of pork projects, subsidies to farmers, social security, earned income credits, the IRS, most federal programs and federal mandates to the states. The states, and private enterprise will do what is best for their citizens, allocate their own tax dollars for state projects, and private interests will flock to provide goods and services which the populace demands, and competition for such will provide more improved goods and services that are actually needed and demanded.

[stand watie]

don't let him/her forget that the KKK mostly used the US FLAG for their rallies.

at the last large KLAN rally in Washington, DC there wasn't even ONE Confederate flag. NOT EVEN ONE, but there were THOUSANDS of US FLAGS carried by the mob of KKK-idiots.

the MOST common KLAN symbol is the CROSS of our eternal Lord. should we ban the use of the CROSS, too because some HATEFILLED fools MISuse it??

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

don't you know that MANY of the coven of unionist lunatics on FR also deny that the bluebelly army was a pack of Indian-HATERS, that slaughtered TENS of THOUSANDS of UNARMED men, women & children as if they were cattle, for no other reason than RACISM???

and MANY of them DEFEND those massacres as ACCEPTABLE??

ONE of the damnyankee coven defended the massacre at Sand Creek as "a necessary evil in wartime"!

one wonders if they would defend the NAZI HOLOCAUST as "a necessary evil"???

free dixie,sw

[M. Espinola]

Two points.

#1 You still have yet to respond to reprinted quotes from linked neo-confederates.

#2 "(I guess Yankees praise Charles Manson as well)" and you want me to respond to everything else you posted, after typing that irresponsible statement?

[stand watie]

tell me, "oh great sage", how you feel about the FACT that new england has more racially segregated NOW than the south was in 1950??

do you attack the northern RACISTS/segregationists too??? or do you only make "cute remarks" about segregation in the southland??

should we southrons send FREEDOM RIDERS to help you integrate YOUR schools???

free dixie,sw

[M. Espinola]

Thesaurus.com does not recognize the term "damnyankee"?

Do you mean these .....

[M. Espinola]

It would assist me & others greatly if you could post in proper English.

These invented terms, such as "southland"? Is that one of your interstate trucking firms, or a supermarket ..down there?

"southrons"? Some sort of migratory insects, water fowl?

[stand watie]

what a DUMB post.

why waste bandwidth on such SILLINESS?

free dixie,sw