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To: stremba
So then, ID and creationism really are one and the same thing, despite all the protests to the contrary? By the way, I know of no way to test the healthiness of fossil samples. It seems to me all are equally healthy, ie. dead.

Sorry but I'm not up on the debate issues concerning the fine-line distinctions between ID and creationism. On the surface, to me, ID simply means intelligent design implying an intelligent designer - creationism implies that it was created through the will of a designer as opposed to happening by chance. Sounds like the same thing to me but perhaps you can enlighten me as to what the commonly held distinctions are and what the protests are about that you referred to. Does a 'God-directed' form of evolution fall under the umbrella of ID? If so, I'm not persuaded by any of those arguments. With regards to my comment on 'health', I as referring primarily to the issue of size - not necessarily the best indicator of 'health'. However, if you see a big fish and a little fish (and they are exactly the same species), one would normally make the assumption that the larger one was more 'healthy'. The fossil record consistently shows that plants and animals that existed long ago were much larger than they are today. I think most people would make the connection that this implies a degradation of some sort has occurred since then.

741 posted on 11/30/2004 6:00:24 AM PST by Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...
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To: Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...

So then, if you found a fossil of an organism that is smaller than a similar modern organism, would you conclude that your idea of creationism is false? If not, then the prediction you gave is not a falsification of creationism and you've failed to prove that it is science. I have never argued that creationism (or ID, like you I see them as basically the same idea) is false. I have argued that it is not science and thus should not be taught as science. I personally happen to believe that God created the universe using the big bang as a mechanism. He then allowed it to proceed according to the design He set up for it, which we call the laws of nature. Evolution occurred as part of this process, leading to all the life on earth. BTW, many people who profess to believe in ID will protest that it is not creationism in an attempt to make it scientific. That is the protesting that I referred to. I never intended to imply that you were protesting anything; I was making a point about ID in general.


751 posted on 11/30/2004 7:00:46 AM PST by stremba
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