Posted on 08/20/2004 5:43:21 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
What's up, doc? (Like you haven't heard that one before.)
Since you meet the criteria then by all means join in and criticize or support DiLorenzo as you prefer.
Hey I resemble that remark!
Texas never under Lincoln bump
Looking at it, I've decided my comment was one of the dumber things I've done today. I really need to take a pill or something.
You might also mention that Sam Houston opposed secession and refused to swear allegiance to the confederate government, for which he was drummed out of the governor's office.
Yeah, the end justifies the means, might makes right, and all that other crap. Address his arguments if you can, but simply spouting Charles Sumner-esque platitudes about Lincoln's "victory" won't cut it.
Yep. He won, then a Southerner had the pleasure of blowing his fool head off....such is life.
See the next post...:)
You are circulating a half truth. Houston was not "drummed out" of office - he chose consciously not to take the oath to the confederate government. That rendered him unable to carry out the duties of the office of the Governor under the Texas Constitution of 1845, which explicitly required an oath to the national government upon assuming the duties of that office. His decision not to take the oath in turn automatically invoked another clause of the Texas Constitution that immediately elevated the Lieutenant Governor into the role of "acting governor" until either the Governor's incapacity was removed or his term expired.
Houston's position in the secession crisis is far more complex and far more anti-Lincoln than most people know or believe. Houston despised Lincoln and virtually everything he was doing but opposed secession not out of any love for the union but rather as a pragmatist seeking to avoid war. When war came later in 1861, Houston cast his lot with Texas and began to espouse defense of the state with the ultimate restoration of the lone star republic.
During the secession crisis he also publicly condemned Lincoln and, even though he opposed secession, made preparations for its inevitable approval in Texas. Among other things, Houston directed state militia and safety committee officials to take possession of all the federal installations in Texas and worked to secure the peaceful removal of federal troops from the state. His son also enlisted in the confederate army.
Another little known fact: virtually ALL of the political figures, revolutionaries, and signers of the Texas Declaration of Independence who were still alive in 1861 actively supported secession (Houston being the lone major figure who was an exception). Several of the signers in 1836 who were still alive were even delegates to the secession convention. Secession also had support from two of the four Presidents of the Republic of Texas (Houston opposed it and the fourth, Anson Jones, was long dead). President Mirabeau Lamar died a year or so before secession, but saw it on the horizon and gave it his endorsement. President David G. Burnet actively supported secession. Secession also had the active and very public support of the elderly statesman Jose Antonio Navarro - Texas' old congressman to the Mexican government before 1836 and a leading drafter of the Texas Declaration of Independence and 1845 Constitution. Four of Navarro's children fought for the south as well. On the military side of things, Bernard E. Bee (son of the republic's secretary of state and a leading republic-era miltary figure in his own right), his brother Hamilton Bee, and Albert Sydney Johnston (secretary of war for the republic and texas revolution hero) all attained fame as confederate generals.
All you Yanks just LOVE throwing Big Sam up in our face, but there is more to the story.....
Sam Houston wasn't opposed to the idea of Secession. He foresaw that the Confederacy was going to have a hard time winning, and urged Texas to become an Independent Republic again. When that didn't happen, he threw his support to the Confederacy, though he would not serve in it's government. Sam Houston Jr. joined the 2nd Texas Infantry, CSA, with his father's BLESSING. (And fought valiantly) Sam Houston reviewed the troops on many occasions, and gave speeches to recruit for the war effort. His loyalty was to TEXAS.
Bush had no need to respond to the puke barfed up by CBS, and I have no need to respond to your screed. When you want to debate facts, that's fine. If you want to participate in a flame war, I'm not interested.
Don't you just love it when people OUTSIDE of Texas try to teach us our OWN history? :)
Since I was the one who posted this in the firstplace, I have to agree with GOP....
Let's see your answer to his charges. They are fair questions!
That's quite the hypocritical statement to come from somebody who got caught on at least four separate posts of CBS-style fabrications WRT supreme court rulings. Just like Dan Rather, you tried to pass off outside material as if it were part of the official record - part of the court rulings in your case. You got caught each and every time, and just like Dan Rather you twist, turn, and evade at all costs in order that you may escape having to fess up to your fraud.
Post the text of where I "advocated" that. And while you're at it, justify your "623,000 of our finest men died" statement. Cite your source for that hyperbole.
As I mentioned to stand, I don't see the need to press the abuse button. I can handle you guys just fine without the moderators' help. It seems that some of you are not equally up to the job and run to the moderators because you are unable to dominate the discussion with your off-the-wall theories. Stop acting like a bunch of sissies and step up to the plate.
" In fact, the quote you allege Taney made is wrong and has been documented as such."
If what you refer to the text of Taney's internal opinion as Atty Gen. in the Jackson Cabinet, I can assure you it is 100% factual. If this is the one, I will give you the source and the original citation. Taney may have held some higher ethical values as a younger man, but by the time he was in the Jackson Administration, and later as Chief Justice, he was as racist and unethical as they come.
Yep, and they all try to do it. The yankees try to teach it to us. The Mexicans try to teach it to us. Hollywood tries to teach it to us. And the version they teach is always something that reflects favorably on them and unfavorably on us, whatever the tactic or angle they use may be. Sadly, they never seem to learn what most intelligent people from elsewhere in the country quickly learn - never get into an historical argument with a native Texan about Texas because it's one you will simply never win.
As far as Lincoln goes, I am of the firm belief that the people and state of Texas have absolutely no business whatsoever celebrating him for any reason. He was never President over Texas. His troops, try as they might, never successfully invaded Texas. He never set foot in Texas. He never produced anything of any form that benefited Texas. Heck, he didn't even free the slaves in Texas so whatever claim some may give him to being an emancipator here is false - ending slavery here was done two months after Lincoln's death by a general when Andrew Johnson was President!
If one looks at the whole of Lincoln's position towards Texas dating back to his term in Congress there is not one single thing he did that is redeeming or in the interest of our state. In 1846 when a war was brewing on the Texas border he stood up on the floor of the House and publicly espoused the equivalent of giving away Texas' land between the Nueces and Rio Grande to Mexico! In the same speech he also made a not so subtle allegation against the legal validity of the Treaty of Velasco that Santa Anna signed giving Texas its independence - and all of this smack dab in the middle of a war when US Troops were lining up on the Rio Grande to defend the border from the same invading Mexicans raiders who had been constantly and wantonly thrusting their way across the Rio Grande and into the Republic of Texas and newly formed State of Texas for the previous decade (Talk about a John Kerry for the 19th century!). As far as I'm concerned, the state of Texas owes NOTHING to the image or memory of Abraham Lincoln today, never has, and never will. And I cite as my authorities on that position the concurring votes of Sam Houston, David G. Burnet, Mirabeau B. Lamar, Jose Antonio Navarro, Albert Sydney Johnston, Bernard Elliot Bee, Hamilton Bee, James W. Throckmorton, John "Rip" Ford, and additional Texas Declaration of Independence signers who were delegates to the Secession Convention including Edwin Waller, Sterling Robertson, and William Clark.
i was poking a bit of fun at you, as you're (unlike some of the ABUSE BUTTON pushers here)big enough to take it.
free dixie,sw
one would hope that is NOT what you mean.
free dixie,sw
Correction. Sterling Robertson at the secession convention was a soldier in the Republic of Texas unit that became known as the Texas Rangers. He was the son of the older Sterling Robertson Sr, who signed the declaration.
we get tired of beating up on the same old people.
WELCOME to the war!
free dixie,sw
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