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To: Alamo-Girl
Just take two skin cells, one alive, one dead and describe the difference between them.

In the dead one, the biochemical machinery has ceased to operate.

704 posted on 07/07/2004 10:27:29 PM PDT by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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To: Doctor Stochastic; Ichneumon; betty boop
Fascinating. To the thought experiment I raised “Just take two skin cells, one alive, one dead and describe the difference between them” your responses were very similar:

Doctor Stochastic: The "live" cell will be generally more active than the "dead" cell. (Chemical reactions going on, etc.)

Ichneumon: In the dead one, the biochemical machinery has ceased to operate.

What Doctor Stochastic calls being “active” and what Ichneumon calls “operating” is what I have been reading as “information”, i.e. “successful communication”. Or in the newer (albeit somewhat less communicative) Shannon based definition “decrease in uncertainty”.

Both of you have prejudiced your verb choice with biochemical causation. But it seems to me that suggesting cause is circular reasoning and thus should not be a factor in answering the question, especially since both the live and dead cells have the same basic chemical composition and DNA.

"Activity" or "operation" are fairly close to "information" but IMHO fall short in that you could shake a dead skin cell like a martini and it would still not be alive. IOW, such activity or operation must be also be autonomous and meaningful. Therefore, I prefer the word I see used most often to describe it: information (successful communication). The dead skin cell has ceased to communicate.

715 posted on 07/07/2004 11:11:03 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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