Science Icon Fires Broadside At Creationists

London Times vis The Statesman (India) ^ | 04 July 2004 | Times of London Editorial

[bondserv]

14 Now Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said,

"Look, the Lord is coming
with thousands of his holy ones.
15 He will bring the people of the world
to judgment.
He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things
they have done in rebellion
and of all the insults that godless sinners
have spoken against him."

16 These people are grumblers and complainers, doing whatever evil they feel like. They are loudmouthed braggarts, and they flatter others to get favors in return.
17 But you, my dear friends, must remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you,
18 that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable.
19 Now they are here, and they are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They live by natural instinct because they do not have God’s Spirit living in them.
20 But you, dear friends, must continue to build your lives on the foundation of your holy faith. And continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.
21 Live in such a way that God’s love can bless you as you wait for the eternal life that our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy is going to give you.
22 Show mercy to those whose faith is wavering.
23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. There are still others to whom you need to show mercy, but be careful that you aren’t contaminated by their sins.
24 And now, all glory to God, who is able to keep you from stumbling, and who will bring you into his glorious presence innocent of sin and with great joy.
25 All glory to him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Yes, glory, majesty, power, and authority belong to him, in the beginning, now, and forevermore. Amen.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Material systems are closed.

Not necessarily. A closed system is one that has no energy exchange with something else. A Thermos bottle is an imperfect example. A living organism enclosed in a thermos bottle will eventually die. The Earth is not a closed system.

[longshadow]

highly entropic placemarker

[bondserv]

Jude 1:14-25

[js1138]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/archaeology/piltdown_man_08.shtml

[AndrewC]

A living organism enclosed in a thermos bottle will eventually die.

A living organism outside of a thermos bottle will eventually die. So what does your statement "prove".

[Oztrich Boy]

I think Darwin thoroughly refuted himself a century and a half ago when he said that the theory of evolution would be disproved if the fossil record did not, in the century to come, show itself to be replete with transitional forms.

A citation reference from On the Origin of Species would be nice.

[Happy2BMe]

A little "handywork" from Sunday School teacher Jimmy Carter - ping.

(J.Carter FOUGHT to retain evolution teaching in public education.)

_____________________________________

"Fierce protest, including criticism from Jimmy Carter, the former President, reversed this (movement to remove the evolution theory in public education)."

[MacDorcha]

i kept using "might" to illistrate to the ignorant that when i use "might" it means something.

[MacDorcha]

i am a Creationist. i believe we were put on this Earth by a superior being called God. i think evolution is perfectly acceptable as far as our understanding is concerned to explain HOW God put us here.

i claim the word Creationist, and you go ballistic. that's where i figure you think science contradicts God.

[MacDorcha]

"A living organism enclosed in a thermos bottle will eventually die."

please note however: dying does NOT= loss of energy. the dead feed other things which in turn die, and feed other things. this is a principle in fertilizers.

the Earth is a closed system because even though things die, things still live. it has life on it, and that life contributes to future life.

by your definition "something in a thermous dies," there is NO SUCH THING as a "closed system," because one of the qualifiers for living, is that it ends.

[MacDorcha]

also, i must assume that anyone who has read all of my posts and professes evolution is true, and argues with me about it, must be refering to my other point, God is also true.

seeing as those are the two focal points of my entire being on this thread, if it isnt one (which you argue for) its the other.

[Recovering_Democrat]

And, uh, the number of creationists that accept evolutionists can be counted by the toes on my hands.

I'm not quite sure what that means. From what I've seen, the ones at major institutions like ICR are only too happy to engage the debate with those on the opposite side.

[bondserv]

Let us take some time to parse for those interested.

Christian brother's and sisters, this passage admonishes us to take the time and effort to try pulling those wavering souls from the fire of judgment, while taking care to not be contaminated by their sins. Namely dishonoring God by denying His word, and His capacity to preserve His word for our generations instruction in truth.

Jude 1:14-25
14 Now Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said,

>This leaves little doubt that Jesus' half-brother Jude believed Adam was a real person.<

"Look, the Lord is coming
with thousands of his holy ones.
15 He will bring the people of the world
to judgment.
He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things
they have done in rebellion
and of all the insults that godless sinners
have spoken against him."

>This illustrates the Biblical principle that Jesus Christ is our Standard giver, for He has authority to use those standards in judgment. Our personal standards are of no account.<

16 These people are grumblers and complainers, doing whatever evil they feel like. They are loudmouthed braggarts, and they flatter others to get favors in return.
17 But you, my dear friends, must remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you,
18 that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable.
19 Now they are here, and they are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They live by natural instinct because they do not have God’s Spirit living in them.

>Here we have the error of the evolutionist. The assumption that nature is the source of truth, while in truth a Sovereign Creator who created the laws of nature, has the power to change them at will. To deny the power of God by believing nature is a final arbiter of truth, is to mock the intelligence we have been created with. Natural instinct leads self-centered sinfulness which will bear the fruit presented in Eden "and ye shall be as gods".<

20 But you, dear friends, must continue to build your lives on the foundation of your holy faith. And continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.
21 Live in such a way that God’s love can bless you as you wait for the eternal life that our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy is going to give you.

>Eternal life is a gift from our all powerful Creator Jesus Christ. He gives it to us, we do not earn it. Honoring Christ Jesus is the only path toward true freedom.<

22 Show mercy to those whose faith is wavering.
23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. There are still others to whom you need to show mercy, but be careful that you aren't contaminated by their sins.
24 And now, all glory to God, who is able to keep you from stumbling, and who will bring you into his glorious presence innocent of sin and with great joy.
25 All glory to him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Yes, glory, majesty, power, and authority belong to him, in the beginning, now, and forevermore. Amen.

>The truth spoken clearly by the Word of God.<

[BMCDA]

What these people basically claim is that certain chemical reactions (e.g. abiogenesis) which lead to molecules that obviously exist, violate the second law of thermodynamics. That these molecules contain less energy than their constituent elements and are thus energetically favored seems to not bother them.
What they also fail to mention is the complexity barrier where their version of the second law kicks in and prevents the formation of more complex molecules.

[L.N. Smithee]

Piltdown Man: Britain's Greatest Hoax

[BMCDA]

Well, I guess that you've thorougly refuted evolution by posting a quote from a man who has been dead 122 years ago. Certainly no one has found anything in the extremely short time since then.

Except this quote in a quote mine ;^)

[MacDorcha]

chemical reactions are accounted for, as while atoms are lazy, they do with to satisfy the octet rule. now that both the octet rule and the second law are on the same page:

why several moles of carbon mix with other atoms is accounted for now. but why would several molecules bind into something that REQUIRES more energy to satisfy itself? the idea is that once an element is satisfied on the octet rule, it would prefer to not change any further unless forced to do so. what forced atoms to bond until they formed a cell in the first place?

[qam1]

Jude 1:14-25

14 Now Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said,

Gen.5:3-18

Adam-->Seth--> Enos--> Cainan---> Mahalaleel---> Jared--> Enoch.

Luke

3:37

..which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Hey, I count only 6 generations after Adam not 7. Which is it??

>This leaves little doubt that Jesus' half-brother Jude believed Adam was a real person.<

It also leaves little doubt that Jude wasn't an authority on the subject.

"Look, the Lord is coming with thousands of his holy ones.

Or the KJV

"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"

So which is it, 1000s or 10000s? Holy ones or saints?

Not that it matters since Jude doesn't even know the difference between 6 and 7 I'm sure he doesn't know what 1000s are

<

[Lurking Libertarian]

400?