The Paradox of Unified Control–How Conservatives Can Win Without Bush

Vanity | 1/31/2004 | Self

[BigSkyFreeper]

Don't get me wrong, I loved Ronald Reagan, and still do to this day. I have to ridicule those abandoners on this forum who say Bush is no Reagan and never will be, when you do a side by side, they're alike ideologically.

[EternalVigilance]

I disagree with you.

'Gridlock' that includes a single Democrat is highly destructive to this free republic.

If you want gridlock within the GOP, to force full representation of conservative policy within our majority coalition, fine.

I find myself at odds here with conservative and liberal Republicans.

[MJY1288]

No blinders on here, and when the base is unhappy, he will get the message, the spending and to a lesser amount, the immigration issue, the base has been speaking up, and it appears Congress is listening and so is the POTUS. My problem around here is with the "Ive been betrayed, and will stay home on election day" crowd. These are critical times and we cannot afford a Kerry Presidency now or ever. I'm all for sending letters and faxes expressing our concerns to our Congresscritters, but to dump this president over domestic issues is suicidal when you think of how John Kerry or Howard Dean would deal with the problems we face right now and in the future. The U.N. is not the answer. Strong leadership is, and George W. Bush is a strong leader, despite whatever differences you or I or anyone else have with him.

[Texasforever]

But it is untrue, and a liberal canard, that the John Birch Society was the core of the conservative wing of the GOP.

No where did I state that the JBS was the "core" of the conservative wing of the GOP. The JBS was the "core" of the far-right. And Goldwater was its standard bearer and for a short time Reagan hitched his wagon to the train. Which is ironic since Goldwater turned out to be to the left of JFK after leaving politics.

[EternalVigilance]

...when the base is unhappy, he will get the message, the spending and to a lesser amount, the immigration issue, the base has been speaking up, and it appears Congress is listening and so is the POTUS. My problem around here is with the "Ive been betrayed, and will stay home on election day" crowd. These are critical times and we cannot afford a Kerry Presidency now or ever. I'm all for sending letters and faxes expressing our concerns to our Congresscritters, but to dump this president over domestic issues is suicidal when you think of how John Kerry or Howard Dean would deal with the problems we face right now and in the future. The U.N. is not the answer. Strong leadership is, and George W. Bush is a strong leader, despite whatever differences you or I or anyone else have with him.

Yep. I agree with all of that.

The only thing I would add is that the moderates to liberals in the party do just as much damage when they beat up on conservatives, or ridicule conservative ideals.

It would also be good to remember that often those same liberals flake off on the left in an almost identical manner, especially when truly conservative policies are actually implemented.

[MJY1288]

"liberal republican"

I knew a civil debate with you would only last a few posts. Go yuck forself!

[Walkin Man]

All I know is that when the Republican party was a minority and not in control of the entire government, they didn't kick their friends and closest allies in the a** and take their votes for granted like President Bush has been doing.

Am I supposed to feel better when republicans bring on the destruction instead of the demoRats??

[Texasforever]

There are a LOT of people pushing the myth of Reagan instead of the actual record. Bush is never measured by what Reagan actually did but by some conservative colossus striding the nation in "conservative" glory. Reagan was a center right republican that people liked and trusted. He was never a red meat conservative on any issues beyond Taxes, foreign policy, defense and "family values". If you compare ACTUAL records you will see that Bush has followed the Reagan model instead of his father’s and in many cases has followed that model more effectively that Reagan himself.

[Texasforever]

All I know is that when the Republican party was a minority and not in control of the entire government, they didn't kick their friends and closest allies in the a**

Stop you are breaking my heart. How much influence should 20 % of the electorate exert? Especially a 20% that is more likely than not to vote 3rd party or sit at home sulking?

[MJY1288]

Gnite Tex, It's 5 AM here and I'm tuckered out.

Cheers,

Mike

[Texasforever]

Me too. Later

[BigSkyFreeper]

On the economic front. Economists agree that to Reagan's credit, Clinton skated through his 8 years with the greatest economy in the world, without giving credit where credit is due, Clinton is responsible for the recession that existed during the first year and a half of the Bush presidency, the largest tax increase in modern history under Clinton's watch, paved way for the recession that was to follow. The recession Bush inherited, started 18 months before Clinton left office.

[lentulusgracchus]

[Reagan] was never a red meat conservative on any issues beyond Taxes, foreign policy, defense and "family values"...

Oh, well, if you only except those issues........

You haven't got a whole lot left to talk about!!!

[Redcloak]

The easy answer overestimates the power of a Democrat president who must work with a Republican-controlled Congress.

There's a flaw in the slaw, Kevin.

If Dubya gets rolled in November, then there's a good chance that other GOP candidates further down the ticket will get rolled too. When the top of a party's ticket does badly, the rest of the ticket suffers. Thus there's no guarantee that a President Dean or a President Kerry will have a GOP Congress as a counter-balance. Conservatives can beat Bush by staying home on election day, but they'll kill off the rest of the ticket and hand a real socialist a "mandate" in the process

[lentulusgracchus]

If you compare ACTUAL records .....

Cobbled up lovingly by some Bush Machine oppo tank?

[EternalVigilance]

Am I supposed to feel better when republicans bring on the destruction instead of the demoRats??

Of course not. The question is 'what is the wise course to bring about change'?

[Texasforever]

You haven't got a whole lot left to talk about!!!

Those items are what made Regan a great president and GWB is equally strong on all of them and in a few ways even stronger. Add that to my list of what Regan did that Bush has not done and GWB is MORE conservative than Reagan.

[EternalVigilance]

Especially a 20% that is more likely than not to vote 3rd party or sit at home sulking?

IMO, your numbers and your take on the true nature of the GOP, and Reagan for that matter, is deeply flawed.

You obviously have an axe to grind against conservatives.

[Texasforever]

Cobbled up lovingly by some Bush Machine oppo tank?

Oh give it a rest. It is based on public record. If you can't handle the truth then don't ask for it.

[lentulusgracchus]

Conservatives can beat Bush by staying home on election day, but they'll kill off the rest of the ticket and hand a real socialist a "mandate" in the process.....

Socialists always claim a "mandate". It was everything Clinton could do to restrain himself from claiming one in 1992, when he'd have been laughed out of town for saying something like that. Didn't stop his shock troops from trying to claim it for him......liberals were running around telling the middlebrow opinion magazines that Liberalism had finally "won history", that the conservative Thermidor and its long dialogue between the competing value systems was over, and it was finally time to crystallize the perfection of the Socialist Progressive synthesis, carve it into the stone of law, and start jailing "hate speech" purveyors. My memory isn't as good as it used to be, but I remember that essay.