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Why was Cruz a US citizen at birth and I was not?

Posted on 03/09/2016 6:42:13 AM PST by CodeJockey

I was born on a USAF base (Pepperrell AFB St. John's NFLD Canada) and of course my father was a US citizen at the time. He was actually born in Kentucky. We moved to Myrtle Beach AFB when I was around six months old.

I barely remember when I was very young, maybe around five or six having to perform some kind of ritual declaring my allegiance to the US. I have some form declaring my citizenship at that date. I had to get it out a few weeks ago when my son joined the NC National Guard to verify I was a US citizen.

So how come I was not a US citizen until I took the oath even though I was born of a US citizen on a US AFB in Canada, but Ted Cruz was one immediately at the time of his birth.

If I had know I was eligible to be President of the Unites States, I would have perhaps became a lawyer or maybe a community organizer. .


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: canada; cubnadian; dualcitizen; naturalborn; silly
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To: Cboldt

Yes, but that doesn’t make non-US soil. It is still a territory of the US.


101 posted on 03/09/2016 9:00:24 AM PST by PJBankard (I wouldn't let Obama or Hillary run my Dairy Queen - Wayne Allen Root)
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To: driftdiver

It’s better than your cite, which is ZERO.


102 posted on 03/09/2016 9:02:40 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: dragonblustar
My daughter has one of those. I remember having to get that a week after she was born nearly 16 years ago.

The State Dept must have been cranking them out. Ours took about 2 months, 13 and 11 years ago. Then we had to apply for the passports, which took even longer. The difference was probably pre-9/11 vs. post 9/11.

103 posted on 03/09/2016 9:03:47 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: PJBankard
-- Yes, but that doesn't make non-US soil. It is still a territory of the US. --

It is a territory of the US, yes, but it is not a state, and so a person born in Puerto Rico is not "born in the US" for 14th amendment purposes.

104 posted on 03/09/2016 9:06:45 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: CodeJockey

“I have some form declaring my citizenship at that date.”

There is no double standard here. You were a US citizen from birth. You never had to file a petition for citizenship or become naturalized. You simply have a document to confirm your natural citizenship because your place of birth or the status of your parents might cause confusion. So having the confirmation is a handy thing to have to cut through the red tape, but it doesn’t change a thing about your citizenship status.

The problem for Cuz is not so much the location of his birth or even the status of his father, but rather confirming the US citizenship status of his mother, which some have questioned.


105 posted on 03/09/2016 9:12:12 AM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: Cboldt

So Puerto Rico isn’t the jurisdiction of the United States of America?


106 posted on 03/09/2016 9:22:47 AM PST by PJBankard (I wouldn't let Obama or Hillary run my Dairy Queen - Wayne Allen Root)
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To: HarleyLady27
There is a difference between ‘Natural Born Citizen’ and ‘naturalized citizen’:

For Cruz to NOT be a natural born citizen, there has to be a third category, not naturalized (because he was definitely a citizen at birth and not naturalized) and yet not natural-born.

Some here have tried to make the case for "naturalized at birth", but it hasn't been convincing, especially since U.S. law defines naturalization as "the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever."

107 posted on 03/09/2016 9:25:15 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Cboldt

NBC=Citizen at birth (unless you can provide convincing evidence to the contrary, which I doubt.) Cruz was a citizen of the U.S. at birth. Whether or not Canada also recognized him as a citizen is irrelevant to U.S. law.


108 posted on 03/09/2016 9:34:28 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Gil4

It’s call the ‘three stool’ theory, which explains how and why...and because he is the ‘establishment’ most consistent conservative and knows the constitution because he has spent his whole life defending, sure is funny he can’t explain this...


109 posted on 03/09/2016 9:39:03 AM PST by HarleyLady27 ('THE FORCE AWAKENS!!!' Trump; Trump; Trump; Trump; 100%)
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To: Cboldt
It is a territory of the US, yes, but it is not a state, and so a person born in Puerto Rico is not "born in the US" for 14th amendment purposes.

SEC. 302. All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after April 11,1899, and prior to January 13,1941, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, residing on January 13,1941, in Puerto Rico or other territory over which the United States exercises rights of sovereignty and not citizens of the United States under any other Act, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States as of January 13, 1941.

All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are citizens of the United States at birth.

110 posted on 03/09/2016 9:41:57 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: PJBankard; Safrguns

I have seen several posts here that McCain was born in a hospital that was outside the canal zone.


111 posted on 03/09/2016 9:52:12 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Gil4
-- NBC=Citizen at birth (unless you can provide convincing evidence to the contrary, which I doubt.) --

Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971)
Brief Summary of Rogers v. Bellei: 01/16/2016 6:14:49 PM

See too, Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420 (1998)
Tuan Anh Nguyen v. INS, 533 U.S. 53 (2001)

112 posted on 03/09/2016 9:59:02 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: PJBankard
-- So Puerto Rico isn't the jurisdiction of the United States of America? --

It is, as much as Guam, the Virgin Islands, and Panama Canal Zone are. Persons born in those locales are made US citizens solely by the operation of statute. Person born there are not considered "born in the US."

113 posted on 03/09/2016 10:01:10 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: HarleyLady27
It’s call the ‘three stool’ theory, which explains how and why...and because he is the ‘establishment’ most consistent conservative and knows the constitution because he has spent his whole life defending, sure is funny he can’t explain this...

Sound like a steaming pile of "stool" if you ask me. He can't explain it because it doesn't exist because you just made it up.

Your original post clearly said there are only two categories of citizens: natural-born and naturalized. I agreed with you and pointed out the fact that under U.S. law Cruz is not naturalized. That only leaves one legitimate option left.

114 posted on 03/09/2016 10:07:20 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Gil4; saywhatagain; WhiskeyX

Way too much stuff for me to respond to.

I made my points, you made yours. We can argue this all day long and get nowhere concerning what scholars and courts have said or not said about this.

I will admit that precedence in the subject matter of Natural Born Citizen is inconclusive because SCOTUS has never faced a case involving eligibility of a presidential candidate... and it continues to evade the responsibility. We have Thomas himself on video pretty much admitting that SCOTUS evaded the issue during Obama’s 1st run.

There is clearly a difference between Natural Born and Naturalized. The latter is by act of congress. The former is historically and globally considered automatic.

There are those who hold to the “born within jurisdiction” position, and those who hold to the “birthright by inheritance” position in defining natural born.

Considering how concerned our founding fathers were about preventing foreign usurpation of the office, I’m sure they would not have hesitated to clarify their understanding of the term, and would have demanded both sets of criteria to be applied.

Once we get away from examining original intent, and instead focus on semantics, our laws become meaningless in the face of overwhelming opposition.

Anyone who wishes to argue that Obama is NOT exactly what our founding fathers were trying to prevent has no business here on FR.

Running our own version of Obama into the same office regardless of his true loyalties does not help our nation’s condition of being 8 years into a constitutional crisis.

An unenforced law is a meaningless one... and our enemies know this.


115 posted on 03/09/2016 10:11:36 AM PST by Safrguns
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To: Souled_Out
They don't define NBC. They were cases dealing with people born on U.S. soil, and they stated those people were NBC.

Happersett and Wong both seem to use NBC and citizen at birth interchangeably, and contrast the terms with the phrase "as distinguished from aliens or foreigners", which Cruz, being a citizen at birth, was not.

116 posted on 03/09/2016 10:13:48 AM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Cboldt

You’ve already seen it so why post it again.


117 posted on 03/09/2016 10:19:51 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gil4

>>> I have seen several posts here that McCain was born in a hospital that was outside the canal zone.

yeah... well arguing about McCain’s viability was not the issue. According to the Senate, he was born on US soil.
Whether he was or not does not matter. The birthplace test was applied.

My point was that the Senate applied BOTH sets of criteria (place of birth and TWO citizen parents) when determining whether or not McCain was a natural born citizen.

So... if SCOTUS were to rule on this, can you forsee them contradicting the definition that congress applied in 2008???

What happens when the dems challenge Cruz on eligibility this year after he gets the nomination???

Won’t the senate apply the same test?

McCain had 2 citizen parents and a shaky position on birthplace.

Cruz has 1 citizen parent and a clearly out of bounds place of birth.


118 posted on 03/09/2016 10:23:11 AM PST by Safrguns
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To: ml/nj

the constitution does not define natural born citizen.

if you recognize the right of congress to declare that military bases/embassies overseas are ‘American Soil’ and that the children of foreign serving diplomats are NBC’s then it would follow that congress is also allowed to define what a natural born citizen is without amending the constitution.


119 posted on 03/09/2016 10:24:07 AM PST by oldmomster
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To: driftdiver
You don't have to post the contents of your citation in support of jus sanguinis being the common law, just give a citation. All the references to common law that I am aware of see citizenship assigned on a jus soli basis, and only by operation of a statute (which is by definition, NOT common law) does jus sanguinis come into play.

I point to WKA because it cites several different instances of common law. It summarizes the effect in the US ...

The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.

"never descends" is a reference to jus sanguinis, where citizenship descends through the blood.

120 posted on 03/09/2016 10:37:27 AM PST by Cboldt
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