It is excellent to have a discussion with someone who is knowledgeable about the 1970s punk scene. It’s been a point of fascination with me since I saw Johnny Rotten on the cover of Rolling Stone in 1976, when I was 16. I didn’t get it at all, but I found it intriguing. It wasn’t until many years later that I appreciated the music and what it did for rock n roll.
Punk roots go back to the Stooges, the Dolls, and even the Velvet Underground. Some like to call The Who the first punk band, but I ain’t buying it. I’m a big Who fan, but no.
IMHO, Punk began in 1974 when the Ramones took the stage for the first time. They were like no one else. They were bad. They couldn’t play. They argued onstage. They were real.
I completely disagree that UK punk was an entirely homegrown thing. Malcolm McLaren saw the Dolls in New York and decided to form the Sex Pistols as a result. In fact, McLaren was so obsessed with the New York punk scene that Johnny Rotten wrote “New York” as a response.
Yes, the States went through the disco silliness, but Punk thrived during this time and spread from New York City to LA, spawning bands like X, Bad Brains, the Dead Boys, and the Dictators and on and on. With few exceptions, these bands were a direct result of the influence of the Ramones.
And Joe Strummer, among others, has pointed to the Ramones concert at the Roundhouse in London on July 4, 1976, and their subsequent playing at a London club, as THE galvanizing event in British Punk. In any event, it was hugely influential, with members of the Damned, the Pistols and the Clash in the audience. It was then that punk bands sprung up all over Britain. The Pistols and Clash had already formed, of course, but the Ramones served as a catalyst.
I think it was Captain Sensible who said that their were not many people at the shows, but those that were there all went out and formed punk bands.
First of all, apologies for being a bit brusque in an earlier post.
To your points:
1—I never said UK punk was entirely homegrown, I made it clear that the Stooges and Dolls were hugely influential.
You are probably not aware that the latter appeared famously on the BBC’s classic 1970’s live rock programme: the Old Grey Whistle Test (where the host missed the point and made a snide remark). Those performances were classics and are still re-played on any 70’s BBC rock nostalgia show. Personality Crisis and Jet Boy were the two songs.
Pre-75-76, it was those two and maybe the MC5 to a lesser extent that were influential. 75-79, Patti Smith, Television, Talking Heads and Blondie influenced British ounk and post punk pop. And yes, the Ramones. Who regularly appeared on the OGWT and other shows in the UK on BBC and ITV.
My point was that the Ramones in the UK were nowhere as crucial as you are saying. Your argument is no Ramones, no punk, and sorry I just cant agree. Esp from a UK perspective. Did they influence us Limeys, yes, but not at the level you state. IMO your statement is far too absolute.
I could actually make an argument that without ANY US band, British punk would still have happened, as most of its influences were British. And the social, cultural and musical influences of the time were very much British: bored youth, unemployment, a failing Britain allied to music which had become a mix of almost-novelty pop and appallingly tedious prog rock. Even rock legends had become stale. Only The Who, Roxy Music, This Lizzy, Slade and the Northern Soul scene still seemed fresh in 1975-76. Even T-Rx were off the boil.
This British punk may have been the punk we know, or following from the bands I mentioned in the last post, may have been less punk and more a stripped bare rock/r+b sound.
2—Punk IMHO arrived in 69 with the Stooges and certainly 73 with the Dolls. I cant agree on that date of 74 or the band. After all, UK ounk band The Stranglers founded that year and The Jam were already two years old. Albeit playing more of the ‘pub rock’ r+b style. To me, punk arrives with the Stooges or Dolls.
3—I would agree that Roundhouse concert was influential, but again not the start of UK punk. What exploded punk was the British media, both in newspaper headlines about the style and musical magazines about the music. At that time most trendy teens bought the NME or Melody Maker.
As an American, again, you may not understand also how incredibly crucial they were. Kids from Inverness to Plymouth, Dublin to Hull, heard every week about this new music and how it was taking over the UK music scene. They couldn’t wait and were entranced by it. Even before they heard it.
Add to that the decision by radio, BBC and commercial, to start playing punk records (the fantastic New Rose by the Damned being the first) and TV (and even peaktime/primetime),and you have the real reasons for the British punk explosion in the summer and autumn of 1976.
Whilst the Ramones gig might have an important part of British punk history, its fallacious to hang the entire UK scene and its explosion that year on their concert.