Posted on 12/13/2013 4:45:39 AM PST by WhiskeyX
The deadly plane crash off of Molokai was the second in less than two months involving the same model of aircraft in Hawaii. [....] According to the National Transportation Safety Board, there have been a total of six accidents involving Cessna Caravans in Hawaii since 1992. but the Makani Kai crash was the only deadly one.
(Excerpt) Read more at hawaiinewsnow.com ...
Gosh, well that explains everything. And in how many Cessna accidents do all the people in the Cessna survive except one?
Thanks. That’s helpful information.
This is the only instance where there was a fatality, and it sounds like landing in the ocean had something to do with that because it’s a rougher landing. Apparently the other instances of a bang in the engine happened at a point when the plane could be maneuvered to a landing on soil. What factors would contribute to that?
The reports said that one person after this crash swam 1/4 to 1/2 mile (depending on the story) to shore to try to get help. Seems like that would be difficult with a really choppy sea with whitecaps.
Is there a reference source which describes the oceanic conditions for certain places at certain times?
“Do you have a link for the pilot having cracked ribs?”
8 Survivors, 1 Death in Makani Kai Kalaupapa Crash — UPDATED
Updated Thursday, 12/12 at 3 p.m.
A Makani Kai flight departing Kalaupapa this afternoon crashed into the water about 3:45 p.m. shortly after take-off about 1/2 mile off the peninsula last night. Eight on board the Cessna Grand Caravan survived, while Department of Health Director Loretta Fuddy died in the water after exiting the sinking plane.
[....]
“He’s a pilot that I’ve flown with frequently — he’s one of the best,” said Department of Health Kalaupapa Administrator Mark Miller. “He proved it by being seriously injured and still getting everyone out the airplane.”
Miller said Kawasaki was bleeding with possible broken ribs and leg injuries when he arrived on shore after being pulled from the water by Maui County Fire Rescue and Coast Guard personnel.
http://themolokaidispatch.com/makani-kai-kalaupapa-crash-updated
“Is there a reference source which describes the oceanic conditions for certain places at certain times?”
See:
Molokai Airport
11 15:54 NE 14 G 26 10.00 Fair CLR 79 65 62% NA 81 29.96 1014.7
11 14:54 NE 17 G 30 10.00 Fair CLR 80 67 64% NA 82 29.95 1014.4
http://w1.weather.gov/data/obhistory/PHMK.html
This indicates the winds at the airport on land were Northeasterly at speeds of 14-17 mph with wind gusts of 26 mph to 30 mph. however, it must be noted that the wind speeds at sea are typically going to be more forceful and perhaps considerably more forceful on a day such as this when there are wind gusts on land at the airport. Keeping the differences in wind speed on land versus at sea, let’s assume for the sake of illustration we just use the wind speeds reported at the Molokain airport at the time of the aircraft mishap.
Visit the Wikipedia article for the Beufort scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale
Look at the entry for a Beufort force 4 moderate breeze of 13-17 mph, and note the accompanying photograph on the right side of the table.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beaufort_scale_4.jpg
You can see the aves and some small whitecaps.
Now, factor in the wind gusts and look at the table entry for a beufort force 6 strong breeze and its accompanying photograph:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beaufort_scale_6.jpg
Imagine non-athletic, poor swimmers, and/or injured people attempting to survive in the sea conditions you see in these photographs. Then look at how much worse it gets if we speculate on the wind conditions at sea being significantly more forceful than those at the Molokai airport.
See the Beufort force 7 High wind, moderate gale, near gale 31–38 mph. The photograph for this wind condition can give you idea about the dangerous conditions the survivors and their rescuers faced at sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beaufort_scale_7.jpg
Landing an aircraft with a fixed landing gear into the waves of a sea like this is somewhat akin to taking an automodile and crashing it headon or in a slightly glancing blow against a solid concrete wall at sppeeds of between 40 mph to 100 mph. Now imagine what that does to your body, neck, and head as you are catapulted against your seat belt and your surroundings. Imagine what your rib cage is going to feel like. Then imagine immediately evacuating the aircraft as it is sinking and jumping into those cold sea waves.
The guy who swam ashore in the strong currents at Molokai is to be applauded. It could have been a lethal swim.
Everyone is very fortunate the military aircraft and pilot doing the touch and go landings spotted the crashed aircraft and summoned rescuers so quickly.
Thanks for that link. Much to digest - first being that Kawasaki is not listed as a pilot on the company’s website (at http://www.makanikai.com/staff.html ), even though the site was updated since Oct 5th of this year (see https://web.archive.org/web/20131005175735/http://makanikai.com/staff.html ) The article said he has been flying for this company for a year.
Other stuff stands out too, like the owner/CEO saying they initially believed everybody was OK, even though this article says that Fuddy was taken into a helicopter and couldn’t be revived by CPR.
The source for most of this article is a DOH employee who says that Fuddy was first taken to a “care home” where last rites were performed AND PEOPLE CAME TO PAY LAST RESPECTS - even though the DOH itself claimed until 8pm that both Yamamoto and Fuddy had survived.
I don’t know, WhiskeyX. As you pointed out elsewhere, assassinations are always rigged to have plausible deniability, and this one is no exception. Stories are always jumbled up at first, but some of the discrepancies in the story itself just seem odd. Like the report that it was thought everybody had survived until the rescue crew found Fuddy in the fuselage. It’s not that hard to count to nine. And if Fuddy was out of the plane then how did her body get back into the fuselage to be found by the rescuers? As I noted in another thread, there are 11 people accounted for in the official transport stories but only 9 people were on board.
See Post 20.
Fatalities are far more common with forced landings at sea, especially in the wind conditions experienced in this mishap. Since there are so few such water landings, it is to be expected to experience one or more fatalities when such a water landing does occur.
“Stories are always jumbled up at first, but some of the discrepancies in the story itself just seem odd. Like the report that it was thought everybody had survived until the rescue crew found Fuddy in the fuselage.”
That story certainly doesn’t make any sense. I cannot completely discount the possibility the aircraft remained somewhat afloat until the rescuers arrived 30 minutes after the crash, but it seems extremely unlikely for a variety of reasons. Most aircraft fuselages quickly fill with seawater and sink to the seafloor, especiall in the moderate to strong wind conditions present that day. If the aircraft remained afloat, you would have thought the pilot would have kept everyone atop the floating wreckage as long as possible, rather than risk exposure, waves, currents, sharks, and drowning in the rough seas. That report just doesn’t make any sense.
“It’s not that hard to count to nine. And if Fuddy was out of the plane then how did her body get back into the fuselage to be found by the rescuers? As I noted in another thread, there are 11 people accounted for in the official transport stories but only 9 people were on board.”
Are there any other reports or photographs which positively say the aircraft fuselage remained afloat long eough for the rescuers to board it?
With what you’re describing, I can’t imagine somebody being able to swim to shore or as little injury as there was.
But the DOH source in that article paints a different picture of the pilot than previous news stories. If he had serious injuries, including bleeding and cracked ribs, etc, as the DOH source said, I can’t imagine him flying himself and Yamamoto to Oahu and then him driving himself to Queens. And that information that he flew himself and Yamamoto to Oahu screws up the number count for the transports also. I can’t imagine the rescue crews checking him out with those injuries and letting him fly a plane in the same weather conditions that same evening.
sigh. None of it makes sense. I’ve looked at so many articles I can’t keep it all straight but I thought I remembered one saying that the pilot flew Yamamoto back to Oahu in a plane provided by this same company.
One story said that when rescuers got there, the tail of the plane was sticking out of the water. But the initial reports said that Fuddy was found in the fuselage. Obviously the military pilot called to report the crash before help arrived, and at that point he reported 8 people with life jackets in the water. If the crash pilot thought everybody was fine when there were only 8 people floating in the water, it would have to be because the 9th person had already started to swim for shore. And the later reports said that Fuddy had made it out of the fuselage. They’re saying that Yamamoto held Fuddy’s hand until Fuddy let go - that they were separated by waves. But then why did she end up in the fuselage?
“Are Cesna airplanes now made in China?”
No, its most likely manufactured at the Cessna plant for single engined aircraft at Independence, Kansas.
” But then why did she end up in the fuselage?”
Sounds like it was an erroneous report?
We've had more of that than what we were founded to be, at least since Reagan. We certainly aren't a constitutional republic any more. More like an oligarchical crime syndicate hybrid operating behind a poll driven appealing and convincingly democratic front propped up with other people's money.
Yep, it's quite a transformation! And, to think a significant number of we, the people, actually voted for it, again and again.
I fear that we shall be judged harshly.
It was a report from the captain of the rescue squad, IIRC. But it was weird because there was some kind of reference to provide wiggle room. I’ll have to see if I can find it.
Actually I have a bunch of stuff I should be doing, but maybe I’ll see if I can find that report first.
OK, here it is: http://www.khon2.com/news/plane-crashes-in-waters-off-molokai
here is the contradictory report from Channel 4 KITV ABC News:
Exclusive testimonies of the survivors of the deadly Molokai plane
KITV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIkhcC4dsx8
Remember this one from 2003?
Ark. Plane Crash Kills Whitewater Lawyer
HARRISON, Ark. (AP) - A lawyer who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge filed by Whitewater prosecutors died Thursday when the small plane he was piloting crashed while trying to land at an airport, officials said.John Haley, 72, who was once the personal lawyer of former Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker, had recently joined a new law firm. A partner, Peter B. Heister, confirmed Haley's death.
One passenger, Farish Kincaid, 70, also was killed in the crash. Authorities said the men, both from the Little Rock area, apparently were due at a business meeting in Harrison.
Haley and Tucker were accused in 1995 of setting up a sham bankruptcy to hide profits from a business deal. Haley pleaded guilty and was fined and ordered to pay restitution.
Tucker pleaded guilty in the case, and was also convicted in a separate trial on fraud charges involving James and Susan McDougal, the partners of President Clinton and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Whitewater land deal. Tucker was sentenced to probation and home detention.
The Clintons were never charged in connection with Whitewater.
Haley's Bonanza single-engine, two-seat aircraft crashed in a ravine about 300 yards south of the Boone County Airport in northwestern Arkansas, Sheriff Danny Hickman said.
The National Transportation Safety Board planned an investigation.
We also find out that Haley, through his wife, had ties to the Enron scandal.
From WorldNetDaily in February 2002: Senate probes Clinton loans for Enron deals: Finance committee finds 3 federal agencies gave 'hundreds of millions' to risky projects
Ex-Im [Export-Import] Bank board members during the Clinton years include Jackie Clegg, wife of Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., and Maria Haley, a former aide to Clinton in Little Rock and ex-wife of John Haley, who was convicted in the Whitewater investigation.Dodd served as co-chairman of the Democratic National Committee during the '96 Clinton-Gore campaign. Clinton appointed Clegg vice chair of the Ex-Im Bank board in June 1997.
Haley has ties to the crooked Riady family who operate the Lippo Group out of Jakarta, Indonesia. The Riadys ran afoul of federal bank regulators after they took control of the Worthen Bank in Little Rock in the 1980s. Haley's long-time law partner, Mark Grobmyer, a Clinton golfing buddy, is a Lippo lobbyist.
While at Ex-Im Bank, documents show Haley OK'd federal loans for Indonesian projects worth more than $40 billion, including many involving Lippo and its subsidiaries.
Clinton replaced her on the board with Vanessa Weaver, who was forced by the Senate Banking Committee to recuse herself from Lippo transactions after a 1999 Investor's Business Daily story exposed her close ties to Lippo executive John Huang.
Both Huang and James Riady have since been convicted of fraud relating to Clinton-Gore fund-raising.
Two Enron executives -- Joseph Sutton and Rebecca McDonald -- have served on the Ex-Im Bank's advisory committee.
It's curious how certain loose ends can be closed permanently.
-PJ
Dang. My computer doesn’t let me see youtubes. There’s a plug-in it won’t let me install and it also won’t let me install the driver for the speaker.
My laptop won’t even recognize that the wireless network here at home exists.
Can you summarize?
I’m not sure why I’m spending time on this. We all know already that we’ll never know anything conclusive about what happened, because the evidence is sitting at the bottom of the ocean and won’t be drudged up. There’s plausible deniability and that’s all we’ll ever know.
I think it just bugs me that we can’t trust anybody to tell us the truth or even care about the truth. We watch the whodunnit shows where they act with integrity and solve the murders using tiny evidentiary details because we want to believe that that’s how things are. But they’re not. Real investigation doesn’t exist, except in the fairy tale whodunnit shows.
I feel like I’ve just realized there is no Santa, only I’ve just learned that all the foundations this nation is built upon are just lip service now. The checks and balances, separation of powers, Constitutional governance, equality under the law, due process, the Bill of Rights.... it’s all just a fairy tale that people in our past used to believe. None of it exists today, except when politicians quote something with a wink out the corner of their eyes because they know they’re just repeating a fairy tale to keep the gullible unwashed masses holding on for a happy ending that’s never coming.
I think I’d probably spend my time better sewing quillows; at least those really will keep somebody warm.
Which is plain to see in the NTSB accident reports. It's not hidden. When the local cops want to catch drunk drivers they should set up road blocks near the airport.
I had an uncle whose rented plane lost power after take off and he crashed. He survived but got smashed up a bit.......
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