[Sacajaweau]

I call it the nuts and bolts of creation....kinda like putting a car together. You want a Lincoln or a Chevy...you're still going to have nuts and bolts.

The idea that nuts and bolts evolve doesn't work.

[muawiyah]

You'll not only have nuts and bolts they will be made in pretty much the same design and size, as will the engine, body, chassis and a wide variety of other elements.

Not only that every variety of conveyance in the universe will have essentially the same parts ~ top, bottom, front, back, left, right, up, down, electrons ~ all the features of "charm" ~ it's memes all the way down ~ not turtles at all.

So, what's the independent factor in all this? Well, that'd be the empty spaces and how they are defined by "stuff".

[Pharmboy]

Great analogy...mind if I use it on occasion? I will give the credit to a native American woman.