Posted on 05/22/2010 6:16:31 PM PDT by goodwithagun
Which ancient civilization was more influential in western politics, the Greeks or the Romans?
This was a discussion topic for my grad class. I already answered the question so I'm not looking for answers. I just thought it was an interesting discussion question and I want to know what you think.
The Romans brought ordered life/ roads/ trade to a huge swath of Europe. When Constantine legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire in 313, Western Civ was born.
I vote for the Romans.
Neither, we are Jerusalem!
Greece is a much older civilization than Rome and as such, Rome borrowed heavily from the Greeks and were deeply influenced by them.
The wealthy hired Greeks to teach their children. Roman mythology borrowed from the Greeks. The Romans took a couple of millenia of Greek philosophy, mathematics, and the arts and modified it to their own liking and then added their own ideas and made them better. The Romans were the engineers, the Greeks were the architects.
The question of which is better would be like asking if British or American culture was better. American culture is a continuation of the British culture we inherited and modified to our liking.
They are all part of Western civilization.
Probably the late Roman empire simply because it started a chain of dominoes that created the need for our Republic.
Greeks
FYI, bboop, Constantine didn't legalize Christianity, he just made it the official religion of the Roman Empire. Christianity was persecuted, then tolerated, then persecuted, back and forth up until that time, by the Roman authorities. Most of the time, they were left alone as long as they didn't preach against the Emperor, like St. Sebastian.
Also, Julian the Apostate (ruled just 19 months 331-332 AD) tried to re-introduce the gods of Roman and Greek mythology, but had a bad accident (likely shot by one of his own soldiers) during a battle in Persia. Sort of like what happened to Caligula, who also outraged the Roman aristocracy.
The Ten Commandments
Greek Philosophy
Roman Law
The Sermon on the Mount
... and the US Military, for protection of all the aforesaid. For now, anyway.
More importantly, Under the Republic, the Roman Senate helped ensure that there would not be any tyrants. Ultimately, the Senate failed and Julius Caesar and then Augustus Caesar came to power. They began the growth of power within government and figured out creative ways to collect taxes. Later emperors created the first welfare state with their "Bread and Circuses" policies. Nero, Caligula and others brought sexual scandal into the highest offices in the land. And yes, for whatever reason, the Roman Empire, along with its political system, collapsed on itself.
Does any of this resonate with anybody today?
I liked your post, but I have to nit-pick something with you. The Barbarians borrowed Roman Law and Roman culture. The Barbarians also supported the church, which was populated with descendants of Roman aristocrats that knew how to run Manors that fed the population. The Barbarians, however, did not really borrow the Roman political system. They did sort of adopt the king system, but their political and social structure was feudalism, which naturally developed from the tribal system for self defense reasons.
First of all, some clarifictions should be made. Does "the Greeks" include the Mycenaean civilization? How about the Hellenistic era, from 323 to 146 BC? Or how about Greek thought that persisted within the Roman Empire until about AD 415 or, arguably, even beyond?
And does "the Romans" cover the entire history of the Roman Republic and Empire, from the beginning to AD 1453?
Greeks
I’m so sorry, but I had a bad experience with Greek food during my 24/hr/day nausia when I was pregnant with my son. Interestingly, we named him Roman. It had nothing to do with the food, though.
Bread and circuses = welfare? Yep.
Romans. God the Father could have sent His Son into the world to die for our sins at ANY time his chose. His plan, it turns out, was to wait until the Romans had developed the then-known world to the point that transportation, highways, etc. were conducive to travel and communication of information, e.g., “Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law...” The Romans for sure.
Incidentally, the Pauline Epistle that bears the name “ROMANS” is one of the greatest and finest examples of a logical progressional arguement ever written. In fact, when Law Schools were still based on truth and honor and true justice, The Epistle to the Romans was STUDIED for it’s brilliant logical arguement in making a case or an arguement; in this case, presenting the logical progression of God’s Plan of Salvation.
Opa! That couldn’t have been fun!
I think that would be an excellent question for the guy at the end of the bar.
Opa! That’s what I wanted when I had Roman without any drugs! Didn’t make it to the hospital in time for anything!
As an ardent reader of history I’ll have to say the Romans contributed more than the Greeks.
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