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> [PING to DieHard, figured you might enjoy some cheap entertainment, lol]

Cheers for that, mate — it was amusing indeed!

I haven’t seen a UFO myself, but I have no difficulty believing that they exist and that what many folk have seen are, indeed, visitors from another place flying in advanced spacecraft. I believe it would be the heights of arrogance for humanfolk on Earth to believe that we are the only — or indeed the most — intelligent beings in this or any other Universe or dimension. It is just too unlikely to be true.

The natural world does not contain the sum-and-total of all that exists. It comprises a mere subset.

I have seen a ghost before, and I have seen an Angel before, and I have felt the spirit of Tane (the Maori equivalent of The Great Spirit) and Tu (the Maori War spirit) in New Zealand’s forests. And nobody will persuade me that I haven’t because I have.

I have seen somebody rendered nearly helplessly insane by a Makutu (Maori curse) and I wear a suitably-blessed Tiki to help protect me from that. Superstitious nonsense? Maybe, but I have plenty of enemies because of what I do, and the last thing I need is for one of them to get me into their power by casting a Makutu in my direction.

The South Pacific was a very old, very dark and very evil and godless place — and in many ways it still is. Long before Europeans came here unspeakable evils were done on a daily basis, including cannibalism and worse, and the supernatural world was very palpable and very powerful.

There is most certainly a supernatural world: the Bible says so, and as a devout and convinced Christian I know better than to argue against the Bible. For example, the witch of Endor brought up the Spirit of the prophet Samuel — that is a matter of fact not a matter of conjecture. We are told not to meddle in this world: that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

People who only believe in what they have experienced in the natural world are welcome to live their lives that way, just so long as they do not ignorantly claim that things they cannot experience in the natural world do not exist. That is an unwarranted and intolerable arrogance.

Finally, what really sucks is when people argue that you are “liberal” just because you disagree with their viewpoint. That’s namecalling and about the weakest form of argument available to mankind. That, and the dodgy references to proctology, have me concerned...

I haven’t seen a UFO myself, but I have no difficulty believing that they exist and that what many folk have seen are, indeed, visitors from another place flying in advanced spacecraft. I believe it would be the heights of arrogance for humanfolk on Earth to believe that we are the only — or indeed the most — intelligent beings in this or any other Universe or dimension. It is just too unlikely to be true.

Exactly right. When our European ancestors sailed to the New World, the natives didn't know what to think, as they were rapidly exposed to what (to them) was magic and all sorts of supernatural hocus-pocus, but it was nothing but more advanced technology than what they currently had available to them in their tee-pees and tents. Any alien visitors are going to have a technological advantage over us in the same fashion.

The natural world does not contain the sum-and-total of all that exists. It comprises a mere subset.

Wise words.

I have seen a ghost before, and I have seen an Angel before, and I have felt the spirit of Tane (the Maori equivalent of The Great Spirit) and Tu (the Maori War spirit) in New Zealand’s forests. And nobody will persuade me that I haven’t because I have.

Personal experience backed up by careful observation is difficult to refute.

I have seen somebody rendered nearly helplessly insane by a Makutu (Maori curse) and I wear a suitably-blessed Tiki to help protect me from that. Superstitious nonsense? Maybe, but I have plenty of enemies because of what I do, and the last thing I need is for one of them to get me into their power by casting a Makutu in my direction.

Question: is that what is referred to as 'pointing the bone'?

There is most certainly a supernatural world: the Bible says so, and as a devout and convinced Christian I know better than to argue against the Bible. For example, the witch of Endor brought up the Spirit of the prophet Samuel — that is a matter of fact not a matter of conjecture. We are told not to meddle in this world: that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

Funny you should mention Samuel, I was having a discussion about the demise of King Saul day before yesterday and the parallels between the masses of Israelites chanting "give us a king!" and the mindless slobs whose chanting of "give us 0bama" will receive the same payback as did the children of Israel.

People who only believe in what they have experienced in the natural world are welcome to live their lives that way, just so long as they do not ignorantly claim that things they cannot experience in the natural world do not exist. That is an unwarranted and intolerable arrogance.

Gosh DieHard, sure glad we haven't run into any people like that in this thread [snicker].

Finally, what really sucks is when people argue that you are “liberal” just because you disagree with their viewpoint. That’s namecalling and about the weakest form of argument available to mankind.

Oh, name calling is just part of the game, like the way fans in the stadium scream "moider the bum!", they don't really mean to "moider" whoever the "bum" is, they're just getting excited. I've been called every name in the book, and there are names I've yet to be called but at the end of the day, it's no skin off my nose, I am the same person I was when I got up on that morning, and I sleep good at night. ;)

That, and the dodgy references to proctology, have me concerned...

I'm trying not to think about that, I'm going to toss out a few extra doggie treats in hopes that the poster in question won't mention it again, LOL

It won't be long before I'm calling it a night, want to give the blinders-on crowd plenty of time to come up with some more creative methods of denial.

Have a good day!

People who only believe in what they have experienced in the natural world are welcome to live their lives that way, just so long as they do not ignorantly claim that things they cannot experience in the natural world do not exist. That is an unwarranted and intolerable arrogance.

Finally, what really sucks is when people argue that you are “liberal” just because you disagree with their viewpoint. That’s namecalling and about the weakest form of argument available to mankind. That, and the dodgy references to proctology, have me concerned...

First things first. When the True Believers use consensus as their defense, it smells exactly like liberalism and their global warming. Call it whatever you like, but I'm not about to become politically correct to appease some hypocritical moron in the throes of projection that used the word "phuckwit" at the beginning of the thread.

As for your "concern", that's your problem. As has already been said, I didn't invent the main pillars of the flying saucer crowd, and I won't ignore it for the convenience of others. The kooks brought the ridicule on themselves, and they'll have to live with it.

As for my "ignorance" and "intolerable arrogance" because I choose to not be highly suggestive or turn and look the other way at such nonsense, I sincerely hope you don't do anything rash.