The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread 11

[CindyDawg]

You couldn't get better speed or heart though. An owner's call.

[MissTargets]

So sorry for your lost. If the other thread would not have been such a turn off, I would have mentioned it there. Two of mine are buried in my pasture.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

99:1 means one will recover.

I know that.

If you add temperment, health and medical care you may have upped it to 50:50.

Then the odds are not 99/1...they are 50/50. IMO, Barbaro's chance's given his situation were NOT 50/50...they were too slim to even try.

And I never did see that he was beating the odds, I saw a pretty spin on the reports. Laminitis is laminitis....having it develop, and them managing it was not beating the odds.

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

I have wondered myself whether he was really an appropriate stud or not... Very good point.

Well, I started out in the debate thinking racehorses mostly break down from youth, not inherent weakness. I do think that's still true. Certainly they would be stronger if they waited another year to run them.

But I've now read about so many TBs on the farrier forum and elsewhere that all have almost uniformly crappy feet, weak, thin walls and soles. That may be part of why they could heal past a bout of laminitis in Barbaro. He probably didn't start out with the best of feet. WHY? of all the breeding programs that should be able to breed for good foot (and bone) why have they let the feet go to hell on them?

[HairOfTheDog]

That may be part of why they could heal past a bout of laminitis in Barbaro.

Err... ~couldn't~

[MissTargets]

I too, thought of the swimming. The Thoroughbred we had, was a race horse until he turned 11. The owners/trainers used to swim him alot. Good exercise without all the stress.

Barbaro had a chance and I am glad they took it. On one of the videos, it shows him walking outside. The right hind was very distorted, but he looked like he had no problem walking. No cast was on him at that time.

[CindyDawg]

I'm not trying to change your opinion:') He was healing at first though. Remember when Lemon Drop Kid was here and upset about a set back? I figured the vets would have stopped then. Then didn't and he seemed to start to heal again. I really didn't think he would. The body and spirit can get us that extra mile. It was just too much for him though. I just do not want all of this to have been for nothing. We need to know what they learned this time to make better progress the next. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to treat laminitis as common , and easily curable?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I saw a show years and years ago on PBS. I've looked for it for years, would love to have a copy. I don't know if it was a National Geographic thing, or what, but the title of the show was "A Magic Way To Go". It was about race horses, and the race horse industry. Secratariet (sp) was a big part of it.

Anyway tho, there was a segment in it about bones, and stress on bones, and how they measure how much stress each individual horse can take by measuring the density of their bones, and exraying at intervals to see how the bones are holding up by checking to see if micro fractures are happening, which does incredibly often, then the horse has to be rested.

Anyway, with all this I find it hard to believe that a horse with the resources behind it like this one could have something like that happen. It had to be a freak thing, but very easily the freak thing could have been a weakness in him from a genetic standpoint.

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

Finally as winter came on it was the economic decision and that we were fighting a losing battle decided me. Funny thing that week, she was feeling musch more spry and was pulling on the shank and would try to trot and canter in the field. I think my mare wanted to live as long as possible, she was not unhappy and had adapted as much as possible, but winter is usually the hardest time with joint problems and constant pain. So having lived through it I don'd agree horses should be put down to avoid all pain.

Sorry for the grief, but glad you were able to give her the best life you could. That's all we can do.

But I had to chuckle about her feeling frisky that last week. When a friend's old horse was really starting to suffer from Cushings, he had been through a few bouts of laminitis and was not lovin' life any more, my friend wanted to end it. I worked it out where I would go down and be with the horse when the vet came because my friend didn't want to see it. "someone who cares about Bo should be there but it doesn't have to be you" I said. Well, he went on a trip for a few days, and I went down there the morning he had scheduled it, and I couldn't catch the dang horse! He was running all over. Not pretty, but he was feeling spry enough to keep me chasing after him for a good ten minutes. I let him go, there was no rush. I had to wonder, if my friend had seen him go if he'd have second-guessed whether it was really time. I know I did. But he was pretty sore when I did finally catch him. I decided it was the right time, not too early, not too late.

[CindyDawg]

I hope this doesn't sound morbid.

Cindy moves like an old lady. I'm happy when I see her all energetic. The other day she was actually running and jumping. A though bugs me though that this may be it. Her last burst of strength. So far, she wakes up every morning though:')

[HairOfTheDog]

Anyway, with all this I find it hard to believe that a horse with the resources behind it like this one could have something like that happen. It had to be a freak thing, but very easily the freak thing could have been a weakness in him from a genetic standpoint.

And so often it's when they break down that they do go to stud. Some of them you can look at as not genetic, but to some degree, it's back-asswards. Perhaps the ones that deserve to be at stud are the ones that never did break down. Lets breed the ones that retire from racing as old horses... you know - more than 6 years old. ;~)

[HairOfTheDog]

It's really tough watching them get old. Hopefully she's still got a couple bursts left.

[CindyDawg]

I hope so:')

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I'm not trying to change your opinion either.

But to be honest, comments like it's the owners call, and I supported the vets and owners....I find bothersome. I saw it a lot on all the threads about this. I'd find it interesting to know what you based your support of them on, feelings or facts. I would have loved to see him recover, it would have been great. I knew it was the owners call. And I was hoping the whole time I was wrong with feeling that the outcome would be bad. But the facts pointed almost 100% to it was not going to work. I couldn't support that no matter how much I wanted to be proved wrong.

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

You know... this is probably the most useful Barbaro discussion I've seen.

[Duchess47]

Good morning everyone.

I'm staying out of it.

It's still cold here but it looks like on top of cold, we are in a drought.

[HairOfTheDog]

Staying out of it is perfectly reasonable :~)

Good morning :~)

[Rhiannon]

Too true,
The barn manager said a couple of weeks before she could hardly walk to the pasture and would stop and rest. The day after I see her, she yanked her lead and rearing to get to the pasture. The barn manager said it was because I had been out to see her. Probably some truth to that. However I wonder sometimes if they somehow know about the decision and say "NO, NO I am not ready to go" and jump all around even if they are so sore afterwards.

Some horses give upeasily , some do not. My mare was a survivor and generally good health. But the arthritis was going in spurts. It would get worse and then be fine. She would be ok at the walk and canter and to jump, just not at trot. Then a bad step and pain for a a week. Later after some recover 2 weeks. Arthritis comes and goes but it is progressive. She started to bend her elbow to compensate and rest standing uphill to get weight off the front. Lots of adaptive behavior.

I just hate the idea that if life is not perfect lets end it. Even for my horse she was in pain. I just could not see her being comfortable through the winter and in the spring. We were worried abought a slip and really painful break. Wanted to give the least painless death we could. IT was hard especially since she appeared to be getting better that week.

Even the last day, if I had asked she would have run and jumped though she would have stumbled. Our horses get to the point that they will perform or die trying. We then have decide when to end it.

However to address Becky's contention , I thought Barbaro would not make it but was worth the try. The surgery was really experimental and that was sucesssful . The laminitis is what destroyed him. Not all horses will automatically suffer that fate. So I agree with trying for life rather than jumping to conclusion it is not worth it. Of course financial considerations come into play. Sometimes the owner could not afford to try to save a horse. I certainly could not afforded the surgery and care Barbaro had and would have had to decide to end it early from that perspective. But the owners had that ability to pay for the chance of survival and I applaud that decision.

[HairOfTheDog]

I appreciate your perspective and reasoning... it helps me think about how I want it to go when it's time for mine. Of course, there's no way to predict exactly how it will go but it's good to have thought about ahead of time. Still have to let it play out as it will.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It's my opinion not a contention:)

Life is precious, human life should be tried for at all costs or odds, animal life is different, odds should be considered.

I'm not saying it was a waste to do what they did, I'm sure a lot of knowledge was gained, and that's something, does that make it right...not in my OPINION:)

Becky