Replies

woodpusher quoting: "You will leave New York with the Powhatan in time to be off Charleston bar, 10 miles distant from and due east of the light house on the morning of the 11th instant"

Notice that 10 miles east means to be outside South Carolina's "sovereign territorial waters".

woodpusher: "Lincoln did not fail to obtain Congressional approval because Congress was not in session, he waited until Congress adjourned and commenced to initiate a war."

There is no requirement for a president to seek congressional approval to resupply or reinforce Union troops in Union forts.
It's the equivalent today to sending resupplies to, for example, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, despite the Cu-Coms' objections.

woodpusher quoting: "...to the entrance of Charleston Harbor, and endeavor, in the first instance, to deliver the subsistence.
If you are opposed in this you are directed to report the fact to the senior naval officer off the harbor, who will be instructed by the Secretary of the Navy to use his entire force to open a passage,"

Exactly, no first use of force, as with any other peacetime mission.

woodpusher quoting Scott, April 4: "He [Fox] is charged by high authority here with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is to reenforce Fort Sumter."

Those orders to Fox were written to say reinforce Ft. Sumter, if necessary.

woodpusher quoting Capt. Adams: "You will see by it that I am directed to land my command at the earliest opportunity."

This refers to Ft. Pickens at Pensacola, Florida, not Ft. Sumter, SC.

woodpusher quoting Capt. Adams regarding Ft. Pickens @April 1, 1861: "Both sides are faithfully observing the agreement (armistice) entered into by the United States Government and Mr. Mallory and Colonel Chase, which binds us not to reinforce Fort Pickens unless it shall be attacked or threatened.
It binds them not to attack it unless we should attempt to reinforce it."

And yet, at precisely this time, April 3, Jefferson Davis himself was ordering his on-site commander, CSA Gen. Bragg, to attack Fort Pickens, Pensacola, and promising Bragg whatever forces he might need for that.

As I have often quoted here before:

"The case of Pensacola,

, then is reduced [to] the more palpable elements of a military problem and your measures may without disturbing views be directed to the capture of Fort Pickens and the defence of the harbor.
You will soon have I hope a force sufficient to occupy all the points necessary for that end.
As many additional troops as may be required can be promptly furnished.'

woodpusher quoting orders to Capt. Mercer: "The primary object of the expedition is to provision Fort Sumter, for which purpose the War Department will furnish the necessary transports.
Should the authorities at Charleston permit the fort to be supplied, no further particular service will be required of the force under your command, and after being satisfied that supplies have been received at the fort the Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will return to New York and the Pawnee to Washington."

Right, no first use of force, just as Lincoln had informed SC Gov. Pickens.

The majority of quotes on woodpusher's post #183 relate to Fort Pickens at Pensacola, Florida, not Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor.
And, yet again, the important point about Fort Pickens is that Jefferson Davis had already ordered CSA Gen. Bragg to assault and take the fort when he was ready.

The important points about both Forts Sumter and Pickens are that Jefferson Davis considered it an "advantage" if he could maneuver Lincoln into firing the first shots, but not entirely necessary due to "other considerations".

"There would be to us an advantage in so placing them

that an attack by them

would be a necessity, but when we are ready to relieve our territory and jurisdiction of the presence of a foreign garrison

that advantage is overbalanced by other considerations."

So we could easily argue that it was Davis who "maneuvered" Lincoln, not the other way around.

This refers to Ft. Pickens at Pensacola, Florida, not Ft. Sumter, SC.

You have an astounding command of the obvious.

Maybe you forget about the amazing adventure of Lt. Worden. Lincoln seemed quite reluctant to address that one.

LINCOLN LIED TO CONGRESS ABOUT LT. WORDEN

In his message of July 4, 1861 to the Special Session of Congress, seeking to justify his illegal actions and to obtain Congressional forgiveness, Lincoln lied repeatedly. He gave false information and he withheld information. His lies and omissions were relevant and material.

July 29, 1861.

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 19th instant, requesting the President of the United States to "communicate to the Senate (if not incompatible with the public interest) the character of the quasi armistice to which he refers in his message of the 4th instant, be reason of which the commander of the frigate Sabine refused to transfer the United States troops into Fort Pickens in obedience to his orders; by whom and when such armistice was entered into; and if any, and what, action has been taken by the Government in view of the disobedience of the order of the President aforesaid," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not, at this time, comport with the public interest.

LET'S SEE ANOTHER STONEWALL

EXECUTIVE MANSION, July 30, 1861.

To the SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES:

In answer to the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting information concerning the imprisonment of Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, I transmit a report from the Secretary of the Navy.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

[Inclosure.]

NAVY DEPARTMENT, July 29, 1861.

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:

The Secretary of the Navy, to whom was referred the resolution of the Senate of the 23rd instant requesting the President of the United States to inform the Senate "under what circumstances Lieutenant John J. Worden [John L. Worden], of the U. S. Navy, has been imprisoned at Montgomery, Ala., whether he is still in prison, and whether any and if any what measures have been taken by the Government of the United States for his release," has the honor to report that it is believed the communication of the information called for would not at this time comport with the public interest.

Respectfully submitted.

GIDEON WELLES.

[Lincoln special message to Congress July 4, 1861] An order was at once directed to be sent for the landing of the troops from the Steamship Brooklyn, into Fort Pickens. This order could not go by land, but must take the longer, and slower route by sea.

[Lincoln special message to Congress July 4, 1861] To now re-inforce Fort Pickens, before a crisis would be reached at Fort Sumter was impossible

First Lincoln lied about his knowledge of, and the nature of, the existing Armistice. Then he lied that a message to Captain Adams could only go by sea. Here he stonewalls the Congressional inquiry about Lt. Worden. The Official Records quoted below document that Lt. Worden carried a message to Captain Adams and did so by traveling overland, by train, to Pensacola, where he lied to the Confederate officials to obtain a pass.

First, Lt. Worden saw Lieutenant Slemmer, of Fort Pickens. Then he visited with Capt. Adams. He then left without checking back in with General Bragg. The Confederates soon became aware of the Union violation of the Armistice and Lt. Worden was captured and held as a prisoner of war.

Lt. Worden filed a report to the Confederate Secretary of War on April 16, 1861. He also filed a report with the U.S. Navy explaining his activities. He filed the latter report in September 1865, after the war was over.

- - - - -

MONTGOMERY, April 12, 1861.

General BRAGG,

Pensacola:

Lieutenant Worden, of U. S. Navy, has gone to Pensacola with dispatches. Intercept them.

L. P. WALKER.

- - - - -

BARRANCAS, April 12, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER:

Mr. Worden had communicated with fleet before your dispatch received. Alarm guns have just fired at Fort Pickens. I fear the news is received and it will be re-enforced before morning. It cannot be prevented. Mr. Worden got off in cars before I knew of his landing. Major Chambers is in the cars. He will watch Mr. Worden's movements. If you deem it advisable, Mr. Worden can be stopped in Montgomery.

BRAXTON BRAGG,

Brigadier-General.

- - - - -

MONTGOMERY, April 12, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER:

Just received the following from our manager in Mobile:

Worden was arrested yesterday and is in the hands of General Bragg.

Very respectfully,

HUBERT.

- - - - -

MONTGOMERY, April 13, 1861.

General BRAGG,

Pensacola:

When you arrested Lieutenant Worden what instructions, if any, did he show you? Did he communicate to you that he had verbal instructions, and, if so, what were they? He is here under arrest, and it is important for you to reply fully.

L. P. WALKER.

- - - - -

PENSACOLA, April 13, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER,

Secretary of War:

Re-enforcements thrown into Fort Pickens last night by small boats from the outside. The movement could not even be seen from our side, but was discovered by a small reconnoitering boat.

BRAXTON BRAGG,

Brigadier-General.

- - - - -

PENSACOLA, April 14, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER:

Captain Adams, commanding the fleet, writes on 13th, just received.

Subsequently to the date of your last letter, as you are probably aware, re-enforcements have been placed in Fort Pickens, in obedience to orders from the United States Government. Lieutenant Worden must have given these orders in violation of his word. Captain Adams executed them in violation of our agreement.

BRAXTON BRAGG.

- - - - -

Honorable L. P. WALKER,

Secretary of War:

Lieutenant Worden assured me he only had a verbal message of pacific nature. The re-enforcement of Pickens was preceded by signal guns from there. What caused it I cannot ascertain. Worden's message may have had no connection with the move. He was in Pensacola when the move was made. Five thousand men here now, and two thousand more coming. Subsistence, forage, and transportation should be hurried. You can now spare the supplies from Sumter, which is ours.

BRAXTON BRAGG,

Brigadier-General.

- - - - -

MONTGOMERY, ALA., April 15, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER,

Secretary of War, Montgomery:

SIR: Very unexpectedly I find myself a prisoner of war at this place. May I be permitted to request that you will do me the kindness to inform me of the grounds upon which I am so detained?

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

JOHN L. WORDEN,

Lieutenant, U. S. Navy.

- - - - -

MONTGOMERY, April 16, 1861.

Honorable L. P. WALKER,

Secretary of War, Montgomery:

SIR: I have the honor to submit the following statement in relation to my recent visit of Pensacola to your attention:

I left Washington City on the morning of April 7, with a communication from the Secretary of the Navy to Captain Adams, of the United States ship Sabine, and was informed by the Secretary that I would have no difficulty in making the communication to Captain Adams under the existing agreement. I arrived at Pensacola on the morning of the 11th instant, announced myself to Mr. LeBaron as an officer of the U. S. Navy, who sent an officer with me to General Bragg. I informed General Bragg that I had come from Washington, and desired to communicate with Captain Adams, of the Sabine. He wrote me a pass authorizing me to go to the Sabine, and upon handing it to me he asked if I had dispatches for Captain Adams. I replied that I had not written ones, but that I had a verbal communication to make to him from the Navy Department. I then asked him if I would be permitted to land on my return towards Washington. He replied that I would, provided Captain Adams or myself did nothing in violation of the agreement existing between them. I then left General Bragg and went to the navy-yard, from whence I embarked for the Wyandotte about 4 o'clock p.m. On reaching her I was informed by her commander that he could not carry me out to the Sabine that night, in consequence of the strong wind and rough sea on the bar.

During that evening Lieutenant Slemmer, of Fort Pickens, came on board, and I had a few moments' social conversation with him. I had no dispatches for him whatever, and I gave him no information as to the nature of the communication which I had to make to Captain Adams. Of course he knew, as did every officer on board, that I came from the Navy Department to communicate with Captain Adams. On the next morning, the 12th instant, while waiting for the sea to subside on the bar, so that the Wyandotte could go out, one of the officers suggested that we should go on shore and take a look at Fort Pickens, to which I assented. We accordingly, about 9 o'clock a.m., landed there, and walked about the ramparts for half an hour, and then returned on board. During my visit to the fort I did not see Lieutenant Slemmer, as he was asleep and I did not desire to disturb him, as I had no object in seeing him, except to pay him the proper visit of courtesy on going within the limits of his command.

At about 10.30 or 11 o'clock a.m. the Wyandotte went out of the harbor and put me on board the Sabine, somewhere near 12 o'clock. I made my communication to Captain Adams, and stated to him what General Bragg had said in relation to the agreement between them. He, nevertheless, gave me a written order to return to Washington as "special messenger," which order you have. Of course I proceeded to obey the order, and was landed by the Wyandotte at Pensacola about 5 o'clock p.m. I was told by Captain Adams that it was not necessary for me to see General Bragg on my return, and therefore I did not stop at his quarters.

I make this statement, ready with the solemnity of an oath to be confirmed. It is made, not with regard to personal safety, or of any consequences that might result to me personally, but purely in defense of my honor as an officer and a gentleman. Several officers in the Confederate service—among them I will mention Captain D. N. Ingraham and Surg. W. F. CarringtonI think I can appeal to with confidence.

I respectfully submit this statement to the consideration of the honorable Secretary of War.

Respectfully, your obedient servant,

JOHN L. WORDEN,

Lieutenant, U. S. Navy.

Notice that 10 miles east means to be outside South Carolina's "sovereign territorial waters".

Apparently by accident, you stated something that is true. Are there any other states that have sovereign territorial waters in the Atlantic ocean?

As for United States territorial waters, they extend twelve miles off shore.

And, yet again, the important point about Fort Pickens is that Jefferson Davis had already ordered CSA Gen. Bragg to assault and take the fort when he was ready.

The important point is your quoted material contains no order to assault or take Fort Pickens, and Bragg made no such assault.

Those orders to Fox were written to say reinforce Ft. Sumter, if necessary.

Your personal imaginary addition to the actual orders is not appreciated.

April 4, 1861
To: Lieut. Col. H.L. Scott, Aide de Camp
This will be handed to you by Captain G.V. Fox, an ex-officer of the Navy. He is charged by authority here, with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is, to reinforce Fort Sumter.
To embark with Captain Fox, you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about 200, to be immediately organized at fort Columbus, with competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence, with other necessaries needed for the augmented garrison at Fort Sumter.
Signed: Winfield Scott

The below lie was transmitted to South Carolina Governor Pickens by Robert S. Chew of the State Department:

O.R. Series 1, Vol. 1, Part 1, page 291

APRIL 8, 1861.
"I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter with provisions only, and that if such attempt be not resisted no effort to throw in men, arms, or ammunition will be made without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the fort."
The above was communicated to us on the evening of April 8 by Robert S. Chew, esq., of the State Department in Washington, and Captain Talbot stated that it was from the President of the United States, as did Mr. Chew, and was delivered to him on the 6th instant at Washington, and this was read in their presence and admitted.
F. W. PICKENS.

- - - - - - - - - -

As documented by Official Records, Lincoln's special messenger, Mr. Robert S. Chew of the State Dept., delivered Lincoln's lie on April 8, 1861.

As documented by Official Records, military orders had already been issued to reinforce Fort Sumter (and Pickens).

The message delivered by Mr. Chew was a documented lie. Lincoln subsequently repeated that to Congress.

Lincoln 4 Jul 1861 special message to Congress p>

It is thus seen that the assault upon, and reduction of, Fort Sumter, was, in no sense, a matter of self defence on the part of the assailants. They well knew that the garrison in the Fort could, by no possibility, commit aggression upon them. They knew—they were expressly notified—that the giving of bread to the few brave and hungry men of the garrison, was all which would on that occasion be attempted, unless themselves, by resisting so much, should provoke more.

Below are the rather elaborate plans to deliver bread.

Official Records, Operations in Charleston Harbor, S.C., Series 1, Volume 1, Page 236.

HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY Washington, D.C., April 4, 1861
To: Lieut. Col. Henry L. Scott, A.D.C. [Aide de Camp], New York
SIR: This letter will be handed to you by Capt. G.V. Fox, ex-officer of the Navy, and a gentleman of high standing, as well as possessed of extraordinary nautical ability. He is charged by high authority here with the command of an expedition, under cover of certain ships of war, whose object is to re-inforce Fort Sumter.
To embark with Captain Fox you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about two hundred, to be immediately organized at Fort Columbus, with a competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence. A large surplus of the latter — indeed, as great as the vessels of the expedition can take — with other necessaries, will be needed for the augmented garrison of Fort Sumter.
The subsistence and other supplies should be assorted like those which were provided by you and Captain Ward of the Navy for a former expedition. Consult Captain Fox and Major Eaton on the subject, and give all necessary orders in my name to fit out the expedition, except that the hiring of vessels will be left to others.
Some fuel must be shipped. Oil, artillery, implements, fuses, cordate, slow-match, mechanical levers, and gins, &c., should also be put on board.
Consult, also, if necessary, confidentially, colonel Tompkins and Major Thornton.
Respectfully, yours,
Winfield Scott

- - - - - - - - - -

Official Records, Navy, Ser. I, Vol. 4, pg 107

Cooperation of the Navy in the relief of Fort Pickens, April 12 and 17, 1861.
Order of General Scott, U. S. Army, to Colonel Brown, U. S. Army, appointed to command Department of Florida, regarding reenforcement of Fort Pickens.
Headquarters of the Army,
Washington, April 1, 1861.
Sir : You have been designated to take command of an expedition to reenforce and hold Fort Pickens, in the harbor of Pensacola. You will proceed with the least possible delay to that place, and you will assume command of all the land forces of the United States within the limits of the State of Florida. You will proceed to New York, where steam transportation for four companies will be engaged, and, putting on board such supplies as you can ship, without delay proceed at once to your destination. The engineer company of sappers and miners; Brevet Major Hunt's Company M, Second Artillery; Captain Johns's Company C, Third Infantry; Captain Clitz's Company E, Third Infantry, will embark with you in the first steamer. Other troops and full supplies will be sent after you as soon as possible.
Captain Meigs will accompany you as engineer, and will remain with you until you are established in Fort Pickens, when he will return to resume his duties in this city. The other members of your staff will be Assistant Surgeon John Campbell, medical staff; Captain Rufus Ingalls, assistant quartermaster; Captain Henry F. Clarke, assistant commissary of subsistence ; Brevet Captain George L. Hartsuff, assistant adjutant-general, and First Lieutenant George T. Balch, ordnance offtcer.
The object and destination of this expedition will be communicated to no one to whom it is not already known. The naval officers in the Gulf will be instructed to cooperate with you, and to afford every facility in their power for the accomplishment of the object of the expedition, which is the security of Fort Pickens against all attacks, foreign and domestic. Should a shot be fired at you, you will defend yourself and your expedition at whatever hazard, and, if needful for such defense, inflict upon the assailants all the damage in your power within the range of your guns.
Lieutenant-Colonel Keyes, military secretary, will be authorized to give all necessary orders and to call upon the staff department for every requisite material and transportation, and other steamers will follow that on which you embark, to carry reenforcements, supplies, and provisions for the garrison of Fort Pickens for six months. Captain Barry's battery will follow as soon as a vessel can be fitted for its transportation. Two or three foot companies will embark at the same time with the battery. All the companies will be filled up to the maximum standard, those to embark first from the recruits in the harbor of New York. The other companies will be filled, if practicable, with instructed soldiers.
You will make Fort Jefferson your main depot and base of operations. You will be careful not to reduce too much the means of the fortresses in the Florida Reef, as they are deemed of greater importance than even Fort Pickens. The naval officers in the Gulf will be instructed to cooperate with you in every way in order to insure the safety of Fort Pickens, Fort Jefferson, and Fort Taylor. You will fully communicate with them for this end, and will exhibit to them the authority of the President herewith.
The President directs that you be assigned to duty from this date according to your brevet rank in the Army.
With great confidence in your judgment zeal, and intelligence, I remain, respectfully,
WINFIELD SCOTT.
Brevet Colonel Harvey Brown, U. S. Army,
Washington, D. C.
April 2, 1861.
Approved:
Abraham Lincoln.
[Enclosure.]
Executive Mansion, Washington, April 1, 1861.
All officers of the Army and Navy to whom this order may be exhibited will aid by every means in their power the expedition under the command of Colonel Harvey Brown, supplying him with men and material, and cooperating with him as he may desire.
Abraham Lincoln.