"First evidence of 18th Machine Gun Artillery Division in Ukraine. I'm unsure of which regiment the patches belong to, if anyone knows please let me know. These guys have traveled from Kuril Islands to die in Ukraine. "
Posted on 07/17/2022 5:45:35 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas
A detailed list of the destroyed and captured vehicles and equipment of both sides can be seen below. This list is constantly updated as additional footage becomes available
(Excerpt) Read more at oryxspioenkop.com ...
Except for Putin's propaganda club most people prefer facts. The open source documentation of losses by both the Russian and Ukrainian side is easily verified if you want to, and is much closer to reality than the obviously fake numbers from the propaganda source you cited.
According to your fake report, Ukraine has "lost" more aircraft and tanks than they ever had to start with. Only somebody who is posting propaganda or can't think past a kindergarten level believes that.
According to you and other pro-Ukrainian propaganda sources, Ukraine already won the conflict, so what exactly is the difference in this and that propaganda? Duh?
Propaganda begets propaganda.
Remember that.
Sure they have. Along with trying to pass off 2014 photos from Wikipedia as photos supposedly taken last week, and recycling combat video and still images of their own losses and claiming they were losses by Ukraine. Yesterday the Russians got caught claiming they had video of the capture of a town but the video was from another town.
The Russian propaganda effort is very large, and you can see some of it being posted here on Free Republic on a daily basis.
Counting damaged or destroyed vehicles documented in photographs is one of the best techniques available for determining losses of vehicles.
The independence comes from being able to look at the raw data they are using yourself. No need to believe them, and it doesn't matter who they worked for before, even though Bellingcat has a very good reputation for open source intelligence work.
If the images are mis-classified, or there is a duplication you can figure that out. They would be happy to hear your correction.
Speedy: You are wondering into the twilight zone now.
Oryx lists this picture as evidence of a captured 2S19 Msta-S (#39 on their list):
You'll notice that an entire person has been photoshopped out of the image.
I don't know if the editing was done by the individual(s) that submitted the picture to Oryx, or Oryx themselves.
The fact they would countenance an obvious edit like this as acceptable evidence for anything renders their trustworthiness as unacceptable in my eyes.
Some? How do you know? Were you involved with military imagery in some respect?
Even a layman can recognize obvious editing. See post #68 for an example.
Face it, your comrades have lost a lot of equipment, tanks and all. Not to mention 50% the best of the best and the cream of the crop of your elites units. A rather more important stat then tanks
The Russians are not my comrades. Neither are the Ukrainians.
To freeandfreezing:
Sure they have.
The only video game footage I've seen from the current conflict as being passed off as the real thing (usually from Arma 3) has been from Ukrainian sources. I can't say I've seen the same from Russia thus far in the current war, and I can't speak for prior conflicts.
Along with trying to pass off 2014 photos from Wikipedia as photos supposedly taken last week, and recycling combat video and still images of their own losses and claiming they were losses by Ukraine.
What a coincidence; one of the most prominent anti-Russian posters tried to do the same just a few weeks ago. See post #45 and my geolocation research in post #53.
The Russian propaganda effort is very large, and you can see some of it being posted here on Free Republic on a daily basis.
Likewise pro-Ukrainian propaganda.
The independence comes from being able to look at the raw data they are using yourself. No need to believe them, and it doesn't matter who they worked for before, even though Bellingcat has a very good reputation for open source intelligence work.
The problem is that the "raw data" in question isn't procured directly by the two Dutchmen who founded Oryx; rather, they parse social media, and their ability to control for quality depends very much on the motives, circumstances, and competency of the individuals uploading the images and footage in question. They're not actually "on the ground" in Ukraine to independently verify any of the images they've been provided, as far as I'm aware.
(Also, for what it's worth, Bellingcat is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy and a bunch of other dubious organizations.)
I maintain my prior opinion that instead of pushing for more escalation (i.e. "fighting to the last Ukrainian" in what's now unmistakably a proxy war between Russia and the West), we should be pushing for a negotiated settlement of sorts before the economic warfare hurts Americans even more than it already has.
We have no realistic business getting militarily involved in yet another ethnic conflict between Slavic peoples.
Glad to know you have vast experience in image and video. Please stop trying to fool people with your boring Orc propaganda and oh-so-innocent act.
Glad also to know that you are surrendering the Ukraine people to the tender mercies of the genocidal Russians. Have you ever even met one, besides your FSG handlers, that is?
With good intel and a reliable c140/chinook the ukes could fly HIMAR to someplace behind enemy lines at night, land, fire at ammo dumps further back and fly back again. No more than an hour on the ground.
Don’t do that too often. Once, twice at most. But no more.
The effect would be to spook the russians to push their supply depots still further from the front lines. Where are the toilets. Where are the places the drivers eat.
The deep question is how do the ukes interdict the trucks carrying ammo.
This is where the daily talley should shift from tanks to trucks and the drones should be paired with the long range accurate artillery to determine where the trucks stop. Hard to hit them when they’re moving .... but they have to stop. that’s where you hit them. where are the refuel stations. where are the stop signs. where are the road blocks. trucks don’t have to be full to warrant an artillery shell. where are the rest stops on the way back from the front lines.
This conveyance of munitions to the front has to be highly regularized/standardized and therefor predictable. Because such vast quantities are trucked to the front.
There should be intelligence and targeting and munitions available to interdict this munitions flow.
I don't have to justify myself to you.
Glad also to know that you are surrendering the Ukraine people to the tender mercies of the genocidal Russians.
I'm surrendering no one to anything. But a lot of people in Washington D.C. and Brussels seem content keep the conflict going (to the detriment of actual Ukrainians) because of their geopolitical rivalry with Russia.
If they want to go to war against Russia, then let their legislatures vote to go to war, as it's supposed to be done! Let them put actual skin in the game, and go fight with their own soldiers, if they care so much for Ukraine!
If our government thinks Ukraine is worth it, then put the vote to Congress and ask them to declare war against Russia!
I'm sure you know how well that would go over with the American public.
So instead, they just send money and weapons (but never enough to actually mean a hill of beans, because they don't want to actually put American lives at risk, which is worse than nothing in my opinion) to let the Ukrainians bleed themselves dry.
I am fairly sure a chinook cannot lift the mass of a HIMARS.
Per the Army: "The CH-47F has an empty weight of 24,578 pounds and a maximum gross weight of 50,000 pounds. The CH-47F can lift intra-theater payloads up to 16,000 pounds in high/hot environments."
Meanwhile, the empty weight of a HIMARS is 29,800 pounds in empty weight, so even without any rockets, a Chinook would be unable to carry it. The Army acquisition website explicitly mentions using a C-130 for transport.
Its just a truck with stuff. Might take two chinooks. one for the truck. one for the munitions.
the chief problem with that idea is the risk of high value tech falling into the russian/chinese hands.
The safer thing to do is just hit the trucks with artillery—when they’re stopped for gas, or toilet or food—or to unload.
The ukes could even bring in some infiltrators to one of the roads. someplace where the trees are close. and then fell trees over the road. anything really that will stop and back up the trucks. they have so many trucks—once backed up —they’d only need to hit one or two in the front and back of the column before the road is blocked and the trucks are stopped and then the ukes can blow them up in detail.
This is pretty much a repeat of uke tactics with russian tanks when they were lined up for miles from the russian border to kiev.
Now instead of aiming for tanks. They aim for trucks.
It wouldn’t take a lot of direct hits on the trucks to totally mess up that flow of material.
They don't need to be. Anyone can look at the image, that's the whole point of photography.
Think about how far you will go to defend propaganda and the Russians. Have you been on the moon? Can you independently verify the images from the lunar landings?
Can you personally verify any picture showing what happened in World War I?
You are just making up reasons for people to not believe what they can see with their own eyes.
More of your boring opinionated politics - so predictable so wearying. Notice how you are always saying bad stuff against the Ukrainians, but never your loving genocidal comrades in Russia.
You’ve gone off the deep end.
Go seek some help.
Think about how far you will go to defend propaganda and the Russians.
What Russian propaganda have I defended specifically?
Have you been on the moon? Can you independently verify the images from the lunar landings?
The Americans who went to the moon and came back testified to the accuracy of the photos and videos they took. (This is notwithstanding the fact that faking the moon landings was technologically impossible in 1969.)
Can you personally verify any picture showing what happened in World War I?
I'm fairly certain that the soldiers who went there were able to testify by name as to what occurred in the photos.
My point is that Oryx is comprised of two Dutch guys who are relying on the fidelity of the data they're provided. If they actually go to Ukraine to verify that, for example, all of the vehicles they claim as "captured" were then actually repaired and put back into service to fight against Russia, then I'll withdraw my complaint.
You are just making up reasons for people to not believe what they can see with their own eyes.
I can see with my own eyes that an entire person got photoshopped out of an image.
To PIF:
More of your boring opinionated politics - so predictable so wearying. Notice how you are always saying bad stuff against the Ukrainians, but never your loving genocidal comrades in Russia.
Not only do I not need to (because there's plenty of people on FR who can document Russia's sins; there's already sufficient enough 'supply' that I don't need to add my own), but no one in America or the West (with any authority of note) are agitating to funnel arms to Russia so they can fight a proxy war against another country.
That's a fairly significant categorical difference.
Me: Speaks of manipulated images.
You: “You are wondering into the twilight zone now.”
Me: Posts a picture from Oryx where a guy has been visibly airbrushed out of the picture.
You: “You’ve gone off the deep end.”
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