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To: mvpel; EternalVigilance

Michael, are you equating a kidney to a person? That isn’t logical. A kidney is replaceable. Persons are not. You appear to think that as long as one person is completely dependent on another, killing the dependent person isn’t murder. If I have misunderstood you, and dependency is not your criteria for withholding legal protection from unborn people, kindly explain what your criteria is.

As for ownership of the uterus, doesn’t the child who depends on that uterus for life have at minimum a tenancy in common with the mother? They are both sharing the same resources, and both for the same purpose, to live and grow and become everything a human can become. Why should the mom get more than a fifty percent share of that interest in survival?

EV, I respect your objective, but laws only work because people in large numbers cooperate with them. Every system that was ever tried has to have the consent of the governed to actually work. A presidential finding would be as subject to the capricious winds of political change as executive orders. It is only useful if you expect to be president for life.

I know you don’t want that, so if you really want to win back the people who believe that federalism is the best way to nurture the long-term rejection of abortion, you really have to answer the question of “how” that other posters are asking.

As an attorney working in the profession, which includes working with law enforcement at a state level, I can tell you with high confidence that your vehicle has no wheels. To whom will you issue your order to close all abortion facilities? Federal troops? That might work. Obama is laying the groundwork for you now by overturning our national inhibition against using federal military against civilians.

Or perhaps you’ll just issue the order to the state governors. How do you think compliance will go? I’m guessing pretty lousy. But even if they played along with such a usurpation of the state police power, good luck trying to get the state prosecutors to convict anybody for resisting a unilateral presidential order. There’s nothing to guide them. They just wouldn’t do it. You’d be stuck with brining in the federales again.

Indeed, you would provoke into being a coalition of dissenting states that would dwarf the anti-Obamacare coalition, because it would be supported by literally everyone except those few who share your eclectic view of executive power. It would be historic.

So, if you cannot put together a better justification for discarding federalism than you have done so far, you will never get out of the garage, let alone make it where you, and all other prolifers, really want to go. Yes, there is a dual sovereignty, but it is dual for a reason, to protect the states from, among other things, usurpation of the police power by an overeager, do-gooder federal. Those limits on the federal prevent Obama from forcing us into bad things like Obamacare, and they prevent the federal imposition of good things too. By design, both the power, and the obligation, to protect human life rest with the states, and that is where the battle is most likely to be won.


269 posted on 06/11/2012 2:44:55 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer
That's why we must fill every office in the land only with those who understand the first and most important requirement of the oath of office.

And why we will not settle for anything less in any potential political leader.

America's Party Leadership Pledge

It's not an unreasonable demand.

282 posted on 06/11/2012 3:08:06 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: Springfield Reformer
Michael, are you equating a kidney to a person? That isn’t logical. A kidney is replaceable. Persons are not. You appear to think that as long as one person is completely dependent on another, killing the dependent person isn’t murder. If I have misunderstood you, and dependency is not your criteria for withholding legal protection from unborn people, kindly explain what your criteria is.

I'm not equating a kidney to a person, I'm equating a kidney to a womb. A person with terminal kidney disease is just as dependent on someone else's kidney as an unborn child is dependent on someone else's womb.

If you are prepared to use guns and cages to force someone to allow their unborn child to live, then how far of a leap is it to use guns and cages to force someone to give up their kidney to allow another person to live?

We need to turn the heart of the mother to her child, not threaten her with armed police and a soulless court system. We need to put an end to the lies and deceptions like "clump of cells."

Abortion is just one of the symptoms of a much larger, much more insidious disease of the soul - not only of the individual, but of society and culture as well. You can't heal a soul, or heal a culture, by establishing a police state that enforces monthly pregnancy tests.

429 posted on 06/12/2012 1:30:46 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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