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To: Junior
You are seriously confused. If humans have no objective value, then each man then holds his own view of human value - that is a fact. If each mans values humans in his own way, then no man can be wrong if he wants to torture a baby. How can you call him wrong - you have already said humans have no objective worth - how can you call someone wrong who kills an object that has no value to him? In your world, he has a right to not value human life - it is SUBJECTIVE, remember? THINK IT THROUGH. Your position has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
4,360 posted on 01/10/2003 9:12:13 AM PST by exmarine
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To: exmarine
You are seriously confused. If humans have no objective value, then each man then holds his own view of human value - that is a fact. If each mans values humans in his own way, then no man can be wrong if he wants to torture a baby.

Once more, this is a matter of apples and oranges.  Some men do place a low value on certain children (Moslems don't think much of Jewish children, for instance).  This is a value judgment, which is precisely about which we were speaking.

However, simply because one places a low value on a specific person does not mean he can do whatever he pleases with that person -- especially if he expects to live in a social grouping.  "Morals," when one comes right down to it, are simply ground rules which members of groups have agreed upon to limit conflict within the group and hence promote survival of the group.  And, typically within a group the members place very high value upon one another.  However, when dealing with other groups our perception of their members' values is more variable.  Hence you get racists, and whatnot, which supports the view that human value is purely arbitrary.  And this is all we are discussing -- whether human worth is subjective and arbitrary (which the evidence supports) or objective and absolute, for which there is no evidence.

4,367 posted on 01/10/2003 9:24:20 AM PST by Junior (Mary had a little lamb, surprising the hell out the attending physicians.)
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