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Without this assumption, you cannot say Hitler or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot were wrong. That is a strange position to put yourself in, isn't it? In fact, you cannot then say there is any difference between torturing a baby and feeding the poor! If man has no objective value, then mankind has no dignity and is a big fat zero as I have pointed out. This conclusion is undeniable and inescapable.

Once again, I think we are mixing apples and oranges. The phrase "all men are created equal" is a reference to value and worth -- what we have been discussing. Torturing babies is a reference to right and wrong, which we have specifically not addressed. And, even if value and worth are arbitrary and dependent upon the observer, there is no reason worth would be zero, as you imply, as that would mean value and worth were absolute and objective. Each observer assigns a value to each person he meets, knows, has sex with, and while this is a arbitrary value it does not mean that value automatically equals zilch. Of course, it does mean that there are people (Moslems, ChiComs, whatnot) that place the value of your existence fairly close to zero, but this is offset by folks like your parents, spouse, kids, significant other, friends, etc., who place a high value on your life.

You are seriously confused. If humans have no objective value, then each man then holds his own view of human value - that is a fact. If each mans values humans in his own way, then no man can be wrong if he wants to torture a baby. How can you call him wrong - you have already said humans have no objective worth - how can you call someone wrong who kills an object that has no value to him? In your world, he has a right to not value human life - it is SUBJECTIVE, remember? THINK IT THROUGH. Your position has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.

And, even if value and worth are arbitrary and dependent upon the observer, there is no reason worth would be zero, as you imply, as that would mean value and worth were absolute and objective.

Don't you get it? If think your life is worthless, then I can't be wrong in your system. So what if you think otherwise, I have my own subjective view and I can't be wrong. On what basis am I wrong? Is morality observed? Can you observe the proposition that objective right and wrong exist? You are seriously confused.