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To: Poser
"Five hundred years ago, there were no hairless cats. "

Going from genes that express "hair" to lack of genes that express "hair" may be described many ways, but it is NOT evolution. What this IS, is an example of how sloppy the definition of terms is in this whole argument.

Reductionism? Devolution? Breakdown? Simplification? Maybe so, but "Evolution?" Nope.

The same thing applies to the "dog breeds" argument. Dog breeds are developed by eliminating unwanted genetic information, not by creating new info. Therefore, it is not "Evolution." It is merely "change."

408 posted on 08/28/2002 7:56:05 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: cookcounty
The same thing applies to the "dog breeds" argument. Dog breeds are developed by eliminating unwanted genetic information, not by creating new info. Therefore, it is not "Evolution." It is merely "change."

Over a few hundred years we have dogs as different as a mastiff and a chihuahua, caused by man. Over millions of years, mutations did a lot more than we could in a few hundred years. It's surprising that there aren't more species.
414 posted on 08/28/2002 8:00:30 PM PDT by Poser
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To: cookcounty
Going from genes that express "hair" to lack of genes that express "hair" may be described many ways, but it is NOT evolution. What this IS, is an example of how sloppy the definition of terms is in this whole argument.

Man made selection does the same thing that natural selection does - it selects which genes will be reproduced in the next generation. However, man made selection is done in the interests or at the whim of man, and has nothing to do with survival. Hence it is not suprising if man made dog breeds lack survival ability, which dogs bred by natural selection have. The one thing which man currently cannot do, which nature can, is to change the genes through mutation or other mechanisms. When man can do this (as will happen as genetics are better understood), then man will indeed create not only "breeds" of dogs, but species incapable of interbreeding, if that is desired. BTW, there are plenty of species capable of interbreeding, so the "dog breeds can interbreed" counter-argument holds no water.

Reductionism? Devolution? Breakdown? Simplification? Maybe so, but "Evolution?" Nope.

The same thing applies to the "dog breeds" argument. Dog breeds are developed by eliminating unwanted genetic information, not by creating new info. Therefore, it is not "Evolution." It is merely "change."

Once again the anti-evos play the game of semantics.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion
Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
Date: 1622
1 : one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved
3 : the process of working out or developing
4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations
5 : the extraction of a mathematical root
6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena
- evo·lu·tion·ari·ly /-sh&-"ner-&-lE/ adverb
- evo·lu·tion·ary /-sh&-"ner-E/ adjective
- evo·lu·tion·ism /-sh&-"ni-z&m/ noun
- evo·lu·tion·ist /-sh(&-)nist/ noun or adjective

The only deference in this change over time is that dog breeds are selected by man, whereas species in nature go through a process of natural selection. Ability to interbreed is not a bar to speciation. Given enough time, differing species in nature lose the ability to interbreed, as genetic mutation and other changes introduce incompatibilities. Given man's increasing knowledge of genetics, man will also be capable of creating artificial speciation by introduction genetic incompatibilities. The only differences in the two is that one is a natural occurance, and the other is man made. The mechanism is the same for both.

484 posted on 08/29/2002 11:39:29 AM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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