Posted on 10/10/2006 8:59:26 AM PDT by cryptical
The question is when could you tell what you paid? Prior to paying the tax or after you waded through a 60K page tax code? btw: there is no way you can add up what you have paid in corporate tax....unless, like some, you believe that corporations actually pay taxes. And if you have an employer then did you ask him what he paid in taxes on your behalf (not just his half of SS/Medicare but unemployment tax, wage tax etc...)
But "will" it be phased out?
The people of Texas won't ever vote in a state income tax because we know it will just be a third tax on top of sales tax and property tax. NO WAY.
Why give the federal government one "more" way tax us?
Congress can, will and must reform the entitlements at some point, the only question is when. I'd prefer to use the fiscal reform energy available now to resolve the problem sooner rather than later. The fact that it such a larger and growing part of our budget is the reason it needs to be addressed in order to have any real effect.
And the FairTax makes the entitlement reform problem that much worse by adding an even larger entitlement program called the prebate, which are just a socialist welfare payment to every man, woman and child in America. There is no doubt that this "prebate" entitlement would be manipulated to buy votes.
And it severs the link between working and paying SocSec taxes, making Social Security an even larger program and more inclusive program most likely.
Are you suggesting that the "average Joe" is going to keep ALL his receipts and ADD UP all the little bits of FairTax he pays throughout the year, then subtract the monthly prebate amounts from that total, and divide the result by his total income (from all sources) to determine his FairTax burden? Get real! "Average Joe is far LESS likely to do that than decipher his own W-2 or 1040 forms.
You appear to live in Pennsylvania (I was born and raised in Western PA). Pennsylvania has state and local sales taxes. The tax rate and tax amounts are annotated on every recipt. Do you have any idea how much sales tax you paid last year? It's all 100% in plain sight ... it's just not very easy to figure it out.
For comparison, go look at your 1040 form last year. Can you tell how much Federal Income Tax you paid last year? Go look at your W-2 form. Can you tell how much Social Insurance tax you paid last year? Multiply that number by two if you're interested in how much was contributed to your benefit ... or just look at your annual Social Security statement.
Consider the total of your FIT and SI taxes(both halves) to be 80% of all Federal tax you paid directly and indirectly. Divide the total FIT + SI by .8 and you have a very good estimate for your total Federal Tax Burden.
The problem with a sales tax is that there is no summary accounting. You'll never know how much you paid unless you are willing and able to track every transaction ... and if you miss a year, or a month, or a week,... you'll never be able to recover the data. For all it's warts, at least the current system gives me enough information to figure out what my actual tax burden is.
As for withholding, I would agree that the best way to put the average Joe in touch with his tax burden is to make him write a check periodically. Burying his tax burden onto a receipt that he'll more than likely throw away will not accomplish your desire.
Guess you're one of those that thinks taxation is a zero sum game, and that static ananysis reflects reality.
There is a lot of hyperbole in your comments. Yes, I (and anyone who wants to look) can tell "what I paid" at any point prior to tax day. If you're smart, you adjust your withholding to reflect your actual tax liability and adjust it when things change. Then you're paycheck gives you a running total of your actual tax liability and payments. Whether you do this is your choice, not a fault of the tax code.
after you waded through a 60K page tax code...
No one wades through 60K pages of tax code ... very little of it applies to the average taxpayer. Well over half of all taxpayers either file 1040EZ, 1040A or Electronically prepared forms. All are quite easy for most taxpayers to handle. Those who are baffled by the 1040EZ or a TurboTax guided interview will certainly be equally baffled by a 23% tax-inclusive rate calculation on 5,000 receipts.
...did you ask him what he paid in taxes on your behalf (not just his half of SS/Medicare but unemployment tax, wage tax etc...) ...
Unemployment taxes, wage taxes, excise taxes, etc. are not affected by the FairTax. They will still be there, still be "hidden" ... what's your point?
You seem totally baffled by taxes and all your hand-wringing is over relatively small amounts of tax. For MOST individuals, the total of their FIT and FICA taxes (both halves) represents 80% of their total Federal Tax burden. And those amounts are well documented for the average taxpayer. The lion's share of the rest is embedded corporate profit tax: either divide your visible tax burden by 0.8 or multiply your total spending by 0.02 (Corp tax is about 2% of prices) if you're really interested in figuring it out.
No one wades through 60K pages of tax codeBesides, there isn't 60K pages of tax code. That's another lie.
Your thinking is very incongruent.
Funny, I think that same of your thinking.
How long do you think it is? source.
So abolish withholding and quit blithering about a NRST.
I've shown you simple way to figure out what you term as "unknowable." Frankly, you're simply wrong on that issue. If you don't believe me, then how about the Tax Policy Center ? There you can see precisely the burden of Individual Income, Corporate Profit, Payroll, Excise, and Estate/Gift tax borne by each income quintile. It's a little more precise than my "80/20" rule because it looks at individual quintiles ... but even then, for ALL but the top 5%, the so-called "hidden" burden is even LESS than I suggested.
I know what taxes are there; your fear of taxes has you seeing tax monsters under the proverbial bed. That you fear some unseen tax monster eating you alive is not proof of its existence.
You never did answer: Do you have ANY idea how much you paid in Sales Taxes last year?
FR seems so much more peaceful lately. Can't quite put my finger on it...
Moving the goalposts already?
How would that ensure that everyone pay some tax (including illegals?)
They already do - every time they spend a dollar.
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