Posted on 08/20/2004 5:43:21 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
The United Kingdom or Great Britain?
Great Britain is the term used for the island containing the contiguous nations¹ of England, Scotland and Wales. Great Britain is used to distinguish Britain from Brittania Minor, or Brittany, in France. The term "Great Britain" was officially used only after King James I (who was also James VI of Scotland) acceded to the throne of England and Wales in 1603, styling himself King of Great Britain, although legislative union between Scotland and England did not take place until 1707.
England, Scotland and Wales together with the province of Northern Ireland, form the country officially known as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" or simply the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom came into being in 1801 following the Irish Union, although the greater part of Ireland gained independence in 1921 to form the Irish Republic (or Eire). The majority of the people in Northern Ireland have wished to remain part of the U.K., although a minority wish unification with the Irish Republic.
The term "England" is sometimes erroneously used by both natives of England (the English) and those outside our country to refer to the United Kingdom. Natives of the other constituent nations of the U.K. find such usage offensive, so it is best avoided! Although there is no adjective for the "United Kingdom" the term "British" is acceptable, although has to be used with care and sensitivity in Northern Ireland, where one section of the community would be happy being so-described, whereas the other would most definitely regard themselves as "Irish".
The United Kingdom does not include the Isle of Man (which lies between Great Britain and the island of Ireland) and the Channel Islands (which lie off the North coast of France). These are direct dependencies of the British Crown, maintaining their own legislative, monetary and taxation systems. Each have their own parliaments and a Governor, appointed by the Crown.
The British Isles is used more loosely to describe the main island of Great Britain together with its associated islands (including the Isle of Man). It has no legal significance.
The Channel Islands, which include the independent States of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney and Sark, are the only remaining components of the "Duchy of Normandy" which still belong to the British Crown.
The United Kingdom (including the Channel Islands, but without the Isle of Man) is a member of the European Union. The Isle of Man maintains free-trade agreements with the EU, but is not a member.
¹ Where a "nation" is defined as "a body of people marked off by common descent, language, culture or historical tradition" [ Chambers Everyday Dictionary ]
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html
You've got: modern encyclopedia entries and a couple of website links you probably found off of google.
I've got:
1. The Romans, who named the island Britanniae, the home of the Britons.
2. Geoffrey of Monmouth, who universalized the use of the term Britanniae, or Britannia, as the geographical name of the island that has stood until the modern era.
3. The Journal of the House of Commons from 1604 when the political distinction was formalized.
So what then is the stronger evidence? Original historical source material or your encyclopedia entries? As I noted previously, most people learn around high school or college that encyclopedias may work for book reports in the sixth grade, but they do not meet the standards of academic research.
"Lincoln's refutation of secession as a constitutional right rested entirely upon the truth of the doctrine that the just powers of government are derived from the consent of the governed. That, according to Lincoln, was the 'sheet anchor' of the republican form of government embodied in the constitution and guaranteed by it to the states. 'We the people' possessed the authority to ordain and establish the Constitution, because those who ratified it had been endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Those rights entitle any people to alter or abolish any government that does not secure those rights and institute a government that, in their judgment, will do so and thereby provide for their safety and happiness. Those rights were the reason or reasons informing the authority of 'We the people' and the ground of the republican form of government. The moral rightness of republican government was moreover identical, in principle, with the moral wrongness of slavery. Republican government could not be right unless slavery were wrong.
"The rights of man were both natural and divine. they possessed their authority from God and nature. They were knowable by the exercise of unassisted reason and were the heritage of all men everywhere...
"According to Alexander Stephen's Cornerstone speech in 1861, the natural rights philosophy of the Founding Fathers had been replaced in all scientifically enlightened minds by the doctrine of racial inequality. Stephens never expounded the new 'science,' but it may be assumed that a decisive contributor to that science was John C. Calhoun. There can be no doubt that it was Calhoun who supplied the 'ingenious sophism' that had 'sugar coated' rebellion and brought the public mind of the South to believe that secession was a constitutional right."
Harry Jaffa, A New Birth of Freedom
Gratias tibi doctor care, qui hec michi dignatus es aperire et tantum boni conferre tam michi quam omnibus illis quibus istum librum contingat perlegere.
I'll catch you on the next epicycle.
In the sense that they dumbed down history toward popular audiences at the greater loss of historical accuracy as is almost always the case in virtually any encyclopedia, YES. INDEED I DO. And I cite as conclusive proof for that error the same sources I gave you: the ancient romans, Geoffrey of Monmouth, and the journal of the House of Commons from 1604.
Says the poster who fabricates supreme court rulings and prefers the sixth grader's encyclopedia over original source material.
"However strong a government may be, it cannot easily escape from the consequences of a principle which it has once admitted as the foundation of its constitution. The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the states; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their sovereignty, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the states chose to withdraw its name from the contract, it would be difficult to disprove its right of doing so, and the Federal government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly, either by force or by right."
Put another way, to deny voluntary secession is to deny the principle of consent upon which the similarly voluntary union was founded. If you deny that principle then the union built on it is rendered illegitimate. And yes, I'll take Tocqueville over a Lincoln-worshipping illogical gasbag from Claremont any day.
Gratias ago quod gratias habes, et doctorem maiorem tuum cognosti GOP. Benedicite.
Why sure, I was on Ireland, the greatest of all the islands.
I lived for a few years in Northern Ireland. I was married in Northern Ireland. My children were born in Northern Ireland. I also lived for several years in Scotland. I also served in a NATO command which was about one-third BA/RN/RAF and one-third USA/USN/USAF.
[cr #2991] Great Britain is an island.
As a political entity, Great Britain is comprised of more than one island. For example, it would include the Shetland Islands and the Orkney Islands.
[cr #2991] Colloquially it is sometimes used as the name of the country, as the Encyclopaedia Britannica suggests ("although the name Britain is sometimes used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole").
What is used and what is accurate are not necessarily the same. In Europe, all Americans are Yanks or Yankees. Europeans "know" that Americans are Yankees. When a European of limited English and limited knowledge of U.S. history uses the term Yankee, it may be amusing to watch a gentleman of the Southern persuasion attempt to explain the he is not a Yankee.
Britain cannot be correctly used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole. The Irish are not British, either geographically or ethnically. The Irish are Celts, pronounced with a hard c as if spelled kelts.
The term British is applied generically sometimes, as no equivalent term exists, such as UKish. Referring to the British Army is perfectly acceptable. In Northern Ireland, calling a Catholic British will draw a vigorous dissent, without fail.
Once it is pointed out by a Scot, a visiting Yank may notice something on British television. When a Scot or a Welshman achieves something good, the do-gooder is referred to as British. However, if he does something bad or criminal, then the do-badder is referred to as a Scot or Welshman.
The people of Scotland are not Scotch. They will tell you so. Scotch is a divine liquid given to them by the gods and stored in bottles. The people are Scottish.
The term Great Britain is distinct from Petit Britain or Brittania Minor. Part of ancient Britain is in France.
As a United Nations member state, the official title is: "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." [ LINK ]
Some sources note that GB appears acceptable to the International Olympic Committee. They are not an international political body any more than is FIFA, the International Football (Soccer) Association. In the World Cup, governed by FIFA, the nations of the world compete. As an oddity, from the UK come the nations of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, each fielding its own national team and competing as a separate nation under its own national flag.
[cr #2991] And in case you missed the post to GOPc, the term "Great Britain," as used in its present form, is attributable to James I of England.
Here your assertion is clearly incorrect. The term was first officially used by King James, but it originated centuries earlier.
LINKWhy "Great" Britain rather than Britain?
There are in fact two Britains: the island of Britain in the British Isles and the land of Britain in France. In French these are known as Grande Bretagne and Bretagne, in English as Great Britain and Brittany. The word "Great" in this context has its old meaning of "big" as in "she was great with child" or "Greater London". Likewise, the ending "-y" on the end of "Brittany" has the meaning "Little", as in "doggy", meaning "small dog", or "Jimmy", meaning "little Jim". During medieval times, the British Isles were referred to as Britannia major and Britannia minor (as in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae). The term "Bretayne the grete" was used by chroniclers as early as 1338, but it was not used officially until King James I proclaimed himself "King of Great Britain" on 20 October 1604 to avoid the more cumbersome title "King of England and Scotland".
From about the 16th century to the 20th century, the political and/or military control of Great Britain and the United Kingdom extended over a large number of territories all around the world, and all those entities together were known as the "British Empire".
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LINKThe word Britain is used to refer to
- the United Kingdom (UK): i.e. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (from 1927), the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1801-1927) or the United Kingdom of Great Britain (1707-1801).
- the island of Great Britain (with its outlying islands) consisting of the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. Note that Great Britain is (usually) an incorrect way of referring to the United Kingdom, as Great Britain is only the large island which constitutes most of the country's territory.
The word British can indicate association with Britain in either of the above senses (i.e. the country or the island), or with
- the British Empire and its forces, which at one time included a quarter of the world's population,
- the brythonic Celts of Great Britain (the "ancient Britons", distinct from the goidelic Celts of Ireland), or
- the British Isles
Evolution of the words
The meanings of Britain and British have evolved over time and as they have gained political significance.
In 325 BC the Greek Pytheas of Massalia visited a group of islands which he called Pretaniké, the principal ones being Albionon (Albion) and Ierne (Erin). (The records of this visit date from much more recent times, so there is room for these details to be disputed.) To linguists, this suggests the Brythonic inhabitants called themselves Priteni.
In manuscripts of the Anglo-Saxon chronicle there is a reference to the inhabitants having migrated to the islands from "Armenia" but most historians believe this was a mistake in transcription and that the actual origin of the islanders was Armorica.
Because of resistance to Roman rule in Armorica (which was supported by Celtic aristocrats in the islands) Julius Caesar responded with two invasions of the main island in 55 and 54 BC.
Some believe that when the Romans took over the southern part of Great Britain they named the island after the Brigantes, one of the largest Celtic Tribes.
However the Romans derived the name, they called their possessions Britannia. The earlier Celtic inhabitants became known as Britons and the island as Britain. After the fall of the Roman Empire, the name Britannia largely fell into abeyance and tended to be used in an historical sense, referring to the Roman possessions.
Some centuries after the Romans had left, some of the Britons returned to the near continent. Further centuries later Geoffrey of Monmouth used the names Britannia minor to refer to the Armorican region they had returned to and Britannia major for the island. Only by the late Middle Ages did the concept of "Britain" come to represent anything more modern than the Romans. By then, the continental region was known as Brittany and the island as Great Britain (compare the French names Bretagne and Grande Bretagne).
The kingdoms established on the island of Great Britain were perceived to be dominant over the whole archipelago, which was known as the British Isles. During the reign of Queen Elizabeth I of England, the queen's astrologer and alchemist, John Dee, wrote mystical volumes predicting a British Empire and using the terms "Great Britain" and "Britannia". After Elizabeth's death in 1603 the kingdoms shared one King, James VI of Scotland and I of England. On 20 October 1604 he proclaimed himself "King of Great Brittaine" (thus including Wales and also avoiding the cumbersome title "King of England and Scotland"). This title was eventually adopted formally in 1707 when the Kingdom of Great Britain was formed. The adjective used for the kingdom was British.
Since its formation, the kingdom was enlarged in 1801 by the addition of the island of Ireland - already ruled by the British monarchy to become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - and was then reduced in 1922 by the independence of the Irish Free State, now the Republic of Ireland. The name of the kingdom changed accordingly, in 1927, becoming The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. To some writers the meaning of British and Britain have changed with the Kingdom. The words British citizen is now used to indicate United Kingdom(UK) nationality because there is no suitable substitute. However, to other writers Britain is still synonymous with only the island of Great Britain.
Other terms also cause confusion. Great Britain is indisputedly the name of the large island, but is occasionally used to mean the UK, for instance in the modern Olympic Games. As abbreviations, both UK and GB are often used for the United Kingdom, while GB is only rarely restricted to Great Britain. The British Isles is still a geographical term for the archipelago, but it can also still be seen as implying dominance by Great Britain, so it is sometimes avoided. The prefix Anglo, historically meaning English, is sometimes used to denote the UK, as in Anglo-Irish. See the respective articles.
bump
NC - "The term was first officially used by King James, but it originated centuries earlier.
Don't be a maroon. What do you think, "in its present form" means? Especially in reference to James I? And with respect to the previous posts mentioning James I?
It means you are ignorant.
[ nc #3009 ] During the reign of Queen Elizabeth I of England, the queen's astrologer and alchemist, John Dee, wrote mystical volumes predicting a British Empire and using the terms "Great Britain" and "Britannia". After Elizabeth's death in 1603 the kingdoms shared one King, James VI of Scotland and I of England. On 20 October 1604 he proclaimed himself "King of Great Brittaine" (thus including Wales and also avoiding the cumbersome title "King of England and Scotland").
Great piece!
Was unable to find this @ Lewrockwell.com, but I remembered the article well, and a google search brought up this one @ FR!
Dick Gaines
aka: GunnyG
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