[4CJ]

No, it's as simple as following Article IV. Any state wishing to secede has to allow Congress to determine the method of secession, not permission of secession.

Georgia: "We want to leave the union."
Federal Congress: "Give us a few years and get back to us."

No state would have joined if this were the case. Article IV states that "the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof." The revalent laws have been cited. It states that Congress may legislate how acts are proven (have the same legal standing in another state as it does in the original state), not that congress can determine the act illegal.

I never said anything about petitioning.

If Congress has failed to provide for enactment, having to request that it do so before leaving is a petition.

You're not connecting with what I said.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner ;o)

[#3Fan]

Georgia: "We want to leave the union." Federal Congress: "Give us a few years and get back to us."

Maybe so, maybe not. If so, you would've had a case then. But we'll never know since the secessionists didn't follow the law.

No state would have joined if this were the case.

Oh baloney. No state would've joined if they knew that there would be terms to separation? I think everyone expects terms of separation.

Article IV states that "the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof." The revalent laws have been cited. It states that Congress may legislate how acts are proven (have the same legal standing in another state as it does in the original state), not that congress can determine the act illegal.

I didn't say they could could or couldn't determine the act illegal. I just said that as soon as the seceding states did not allow the Congress to prescribe laws to prove their secession, they were in violation of the Constitution they agreed to and therefore were in rebellion.

If Congress has failed to provide for enactment, having to request that it do so before leaving is a petition.

No it's not. When a traffic cop guides you through a detour, you're not asking him for permission to go where you're going, you're allowing him to tell you how to navigate at that particular point.

[Gianni]

I think this whole Article IV argument may have merit. #3 is telling us that the time has come for us to invade California and Massachusetts (and any state demanding recognition of their gay marriages) and burn all the major cities to the ground.