Free Republic

trail = trial

According to that Demo appointed judge, anchor babies are natural born citizens.

From your link:

[14] We note the fact that the Court in Wong Kim Ark did not actually pronounce the plaintiff a “natural born Citizen” using the Constitution‟s Article II language is immaterial.

The judge gets it right in this aspect that Ark was not a natural born citizen but draws the incorrect conclusion. Every case from about 1850 to 1952 which had mentioned case subjects with foreign parent(s) and were born in the United States, were called 'native born' and none were called natural born citizens. Except, in the case of 1939, Perkins v. Elg, were Miss Elg was correctly called a Natural Born Citizen. The US Supreme Court have consistently differentiated 'native born' versus 'natural born' were this judge Dreyer has conflated them to be the same.

For the foregoing reasons, we affirm the trial court‟s grant of the Governor‟s motion to dismiss. Affirmed.

The case never made it to trail thus avoiding uncertainty in the issue where the judge would have less control.

WOWZA! Look at these *COOL* wall decorations I found!!

Standard "crotch salute" photo (I suppose the National Anthem must have been playing.)

/sarc
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Did I mention.... /sarc (LOL)!

Man, you are all over NS today. LOL

LOL! No /sarc tag necessary.

Hey now that I think of it that *lovely* (/sarc) plate would make a nice Christmas gift for an Obot I know. She would cherish it forever (barf again!)

Though your post was not address to me, I’m going to answer your question.

The birth certificate is, for the most part, simply a start. It is a way to get the public’s attention and to have them wonder why the President of the US would go into court and fight showing his birth certificate; a document we’ve all had to show numerous times for various governmental and non-governmental matters. I will say this, there is no way possible for the COLB released by factcheck.org to be genuine, absolutely no way and I’m still waiting for a so called “anti-birther” to explain to me how it could be given that facts we know.

I also do not believe he is ineligible to be president and it has nothing to do with what is on his Hawaiian birth certificate.

Forget his birth for a second.

At age 6 (from what we have been told) Obama was adopted by an Indonesian citizen, Lolo Seotoro. At that point his name was legally changed to Barry Seotoro and he moved to Indonesia becoming an Indonesian Citizen. We know he was listed as an citizen of Indonesia from his school records.

John Jay in his letter to Washington of July 1785 made the suggestion that no person should be allowed to become President of the US who has allegiance to any other country. Jay’s suggestion was taken seriously by Washington as well as the founders and without descent the condition of being a Natural Born Citizen was inserted into the Constitution only for the office of President.

Obama becoming a citizen of Indonesia, added to his admitted dual British citizenship at birth puts him directly against what Jay intended and our founders accepted, allegiance to three different countries (US, Britain and Indonesia). Simply put, Obama does not qualify by any means as to the original intent of the founders. Yes, we need a court ruling to this effect, that I fully admit but Obama has more problems then eligibility.

Obama was legally adopted yet we are missing some important documents that prove he is even legally a citizen of this country.

Where and when did he legally change his name to Barack H. Obama? Where is the court paperwork?

How did he change his birth certificate from a legal adoption by Lolo Seotoro; back to BHO Sr?

I have a similar situation as Obama. While I know who my biological father is, I too was adopted by my “step-father” at age 6. For reasons that I will not go into here, I do not consider him my “father” and in fact have a relationship now with his family, not him. However, he is still legally my Father. His name appears on my birth certificate and there is nothing I can do to change that. A legal adoption does not allow for me to go back and say “I don’t want him as my Father anymore, take his name off my birth certificate”. Obama’s adoption would have done the same.

Combine Obama’s Indonesian problem with his Kenyan problem and I can not see how anyone who takes a look at his background can not question it.

Obama’s birth certificate SHOULD show he was born in Hawaii, his father listed as Lolo Seotoro. His B/C could NOT say his father is Barack H. Obama Sr. not unless he and his family has lied about Lolo Seotoro. What Obama is said to have released shows BHO Sr. as father. This is a legal impossibility and only one reason why he should allow Hawaii to release his full record.

Aside from his b/c problems there are questions that need to be answered about his citizenship. When did he retake his American citizenship? Is he even an American citizen?

While in many ways the B/C is to get the attention of the American public, it is the first of many documents that need to be released. Do we not have a right to know who is sitting in the most powerful office in the world?

For those who believe there are no questions, PLEASE explain to me how he could have been adopted by Lolo Seotoro but is now Barack H. Obama. Hmmmmmm?

Your “father Unknown” theory sounds plausible to me.

Dunham was probably porking several black guys and BHO Sr. was the only one dumb enough to believe he was the only one, and therefore the father, allowing Dunham to use his name ex post facto of the actual birth.

"Father Unknown" on the BC is plausible but suppose instead that there is some other man's name entered as the father on the BC? That would shoot to hell all of Zero's talk about his "daddy" not to mention the book.

In your opinion. Courts are on record disagreeing.
Nope. The courts have avoided the issue.

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Not the Indiana Court of Appeals in the case of Ankeny v The Governor of Indiana. That court decided that both John McCain and Barack Obama meet the constitutional definition of natural born citizens.
Time will tell whether the Indiana Appeals Court’s decision will be appealed and upheld or reversed at a higher judicial level.
http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/ankeny-v-gov-of-indiana-natural-born-defined-born-on-us-soil-regardless-of-citizenship-parents/#more-7312

Wow. Did you come up with that on your own, or do you have someone write your material?

“What do you need to demonstrate Obama is a fraud?”

I need evidence, not disjointed emotional ranting.

You know, that whole rule of law thing Western civilization prides itself on? Do you understand that no one, however much you dislike them, is required to prove they didn't commit a crime? You are required to prove they did, meeting minimum evidentiary standards along the way.

You seem to assume your sense of outrage constitutes evidence. I must regretfully inform that it does not.

My wife belongs to a fashion forum and some of the worst trolls are some of the oldest members

Trolls on a "fashion form"???

tired old conservative is tired and old, that’s it.

The trolls really are on this thread like flies on dung.

One of their arguments is that “birthers” who focus on the eligiblity issue make themselves into fringe kooks which helps 0bama. This is such a lame after the fact invention - so transparent too.

It’s a vain attempt to shut people up, that’s all.

No, the spokesman for the newspaper said as far as he knew they were supplied by the dept of health, but he wasn’t around then. He also didn’t know if they only came that way.

I remember threads about that or at least discussed that particular point.

If you can find direct quotes that support what you said, post em!

What is the Chrysler lawsuit? I have not heard of that one.

Thanks.

Nothing you posted here is reality. You are repeating the same TIRED posts with nothing to back up your position.

There is nothing demonstrably fraudulent.

What do you need to demonstrate Obama is a fraud? Or do you care, more to the point? Prove he did not defraud the people in each state he ran? Show his original BC with hospital and physician. Do you have one? I can underatand if you are not from here not understanding natural born and birth certificates.

Obama was not vetted at all. There is no records to prove he was anywhere but Pelosi's signature saying she did. There's a stellar recommendation most would refuse.

Because no one thought a communist fraudulently could get into office, does not mean we have to keep him there. Criminals have been dealt with before and in countries not based on freedom as are in America. Obama will be found out. Truth always wins over evil.

Goodnight tired. Your posts are merely obama/axelrod talking points.

It’s just a high stakes three card monte game, and all they are doing is hiding the real BC. We arent fooled.

obumpa

“There is no assumption on my part. Obama’s online BC verified by his people means as much to me as Obama’s ACORN recently saying they did nothing wrong by their own investigation.”

Legally, it doesn't have to mean anything to you. Your suspicions have no legal standing.

“If there was proper vetting Hawaii would be allowed to release Obama’s BC.”

No state requires that. Legally, the COLB is adequate to establish place of birth.

You're statement is incorrect.

“You believe that Obama may have become POTUS through fraudulence but it is all good because he was able to pull it off.”

There is nothing demonstrably fraudulent.

He met the vetting requirements that exist, whether you like them or not.

He has a legal COLB that says he was born in Hawaii, one that the state of Hawaii isn't disputing.

A court in Indiana has upheld existing Supreme Court precedent that you don't have to have two citizen parents to be an NBC. He was elected and inaugurated with everyone knowing his father wasn't a citizen.

Game over. Against that, your suspicions are meaningless. Obama doesn't have to prove the negative. You have to prove he did something wrong. And let's see... Hmmm. To date you have no legally actionable cases a court will act upon even defined, let alone meaningful evidence to dispute any of the above.

If proven ineligible, I wouldn't say Obama must stay in office. Show me where you've got anything even close to doing that, because all the hyperventilating paranoia on these threads won't cut it.

Your “father Unknown” theory sounds plausible to me.

Dunham was probably porking several black guys and BHO Sr.
was the only one dumb enough to believe he was the only one, and therefore the father, allowing Dunham to use his name ex post facto of the actual birth.
There is no marriage license, certificate of marriage or any record of an actual ceremony having taken place. BHO Sr. and Dunham never lived together. The only actual documentation of any sort is the “divorce” document some years later which BHO Sr. never even responded to.

Like another poster, you're assuming that because you aren't satisfied with the vetting, it didn't occur. That's not true. Whether it was adequate vetting or not, it met the legal requirements that exist.

There is no assumption on my part. Obama's online BC verified by his people means as much to me as Obama's ACORN recently saying they did nothing wrong by their own investigation. If there was proper vetting Hawaii would be allowed to release Obama's BC.

It was assumed Obama had been vetted properly by Chicago thugocracy. Pelosi wanted power so bad she signed off on the vetting. Obama WAS NEVER VETTED properly.

And if there was a inkling to vetting you mention, Cheney would be first to show the records as he was mentioned in a lawsuit. Cheney was duped by the false vetting and he knows it.

You see tired, when someone is caught in multiple lies, most people do not believe them. At that point you need to show some validation. Other wise you get a whole lot of lawsuits and poll numbers dropping like climategate validity.

But what's done is done.

Okay,tired. You believe that Obama may have become POTUS through fraudulence but it is all good because he was able to pull it off.

Gotcha!

Show me where it says Obama must stay in office if proven not eligible?

and? That means nothing, absolutely nothing. My wife belongs to a fashion forum and some of the worst trolls are some of the oldest members. Take a stroll back through NS’s posts on the forum. Look at the name calling, how he stalks the BC threads. Besides, no wonder you would take up for him since you are on the troll list floating around.

Actually, the idea came from FReeper wintertime.

I’ve left them on car windows, books and/or magazines that are for sale...be creative!

beneath his intellectual status
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LOL! Did you forget the sarcasm tag for the Kansas king of copy and paste?

Maybe you think it is silly that he is also a British/E.U. citizen with voting rights in U.K.!!!

These are questions that the lemmings will do their best to cover up and deflect!!!

If Obama were to supply a physical copy of his COLB or original (provided he still has it, as he claims in his memoir), to whom should he provide the original copy?

I did not know anyone who wants Obama's old birth certificate he said he found in a book. I want a Hawaii records certified long form birth certificate because he said he was born in Hawaii. A gvmt vital records everyone born in America and living now has.

You feel a child is born in the US, they are given one copy of their BC and we have no other official records?

Obama has to release from Hawaii records the original long form that states the hospital, physician etc. Hawaii records said he has a form of BC there. As you recall they said they could not release it unless Obama signed?!

Everyone has seen the copy online of what Obama wants everyone to believe, I know few who want to see another. I want forensic, signed and sealed and traceable in Hawaii records.

Obama can release it to all of congress and senate,but the release must allow it to be traceable in Hawaii records. In other words, I want to see it on all records pertaining to Obama as I do with my family who has nothing to hide.

I mean come on, what is he hiding on a BC? It is the most innocent document a human can ever have.

Of course it's entirely possible and highly likely that a teen-aged liberal arts major was so well versed in U.S. citizenship law that she immediately knew that her baby boy's status as a natural born citizen and future president was in danger, so within hours of birth she initiated a long distance conspiracy from her base of operations in a third world armpit of a city to make sure that the proper paperwork was forged and filed.

Not a future president (usurper), but because they then could game the system with multiple social security numbers and the like!!!

Congress did pretty much the same thing for Obama with their resolution on the 50th anniversary of Hawaian statehood. So the two are even.

So the two are even?

In what matter are they even??

At least we got to see McLam's long-form with all the details your usurper don't want us to see!!

NS has been here a lot longer then you joe

"I believe in large part it debunks the notion that the announcements were somehow forged. To be honest, I was somewhat crestfallen that Barry’s birth appeared. I was looking for the smoking gun…"

We are not going to find any "smoking gun". We can hope for dirt to be uncovered, but frankly the man is already covered in dog shiite. Dirt would be a step up for him. I beg anyone who has ears to hear this: It is about the Constitution, fellow Freepers. It will never be about a birth certificate. The certificate is a ploy in one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated. The smokescreen is the millions paid to lawyers as though something sinister is to be discovered in Hawaii. The most is the we can obtain from the bc is further verification of O's father as a British subject. They have conspired to hand us over to our enemies, these "men of honor" in our government. They changed the Constitution before our eyes, just like Copperfield made the jet aircraft disappear a few years back...

Because it helps them. He is doing the math, and he is still sees it as painting the opposition as kooks. Can’t put a price on marginalizing the opposition.

Like another poster, you're assuming that because you aren't satisfied with the vetting, it didn't occur. That's not true. Whether it was adequate vetting or not, it met the legal requirements that exist. There was no omission on Obama’s part, and therefore no pre-Presidential liability.

If you don't like the vetting requirements, work to change them in your state. But what's done is done.

“Show us the proof”

I didn’t mean to pick on just you, OOF, but wanted to quote an appropriate post for framing my question.

I mean this question honestly.

If Obama were to supply a physical copy of his COLB or original (provided he still has it, as he claims in his memoir), to whom should he provide the original copy?

The courts don’t want it (based on last count I think it’s about two dozen courts who have refused to consider the question). And if you think that’s a conspiracy, my only retort is that birthers are likely the worst legal forum-shoppers ever.

Should Obama provide a copy (assuming only one exists in the original “long-form”) to the media? What if they found it valid? I doubt that would satisfy anyone here, even if it was Fox News (the last place Obama would give it to).

I just don’t understand specifically what the birthers are asking for when they ask this question. Who or what exactly is the forum to which to submit these documents for verification?

I agree that the states should adopt measures to ensure in-house verification of qualifications for 2012, but when people here say “show the long form” or “show the original” I have no idea what that means other than a computer-generated copy, which will never satisfy any birther. None of us are going to actually see any of these things in person.

Awesome.
Thanks, check your FRMail

Okay, so obama was suppose to be vetted properly before he became eligible to run for POTUS. Obama cannot prove his eligibility now or he refuses to do so.

This happened before he was president and was a senator. According to you if it happened before becoming President Taxpayers don’t pay for their legal defense, right? He conned everyone before he was elected.

Nordyke worked as a Population research fellow at the East-West Center at the same time Dunham was there so the story goes tired posted. So Stanley Ann met Barack senior and Lolo at this east west center?

From another source online.

http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/FGS/O/ObamaBarackHussein-StanleyAnnDunham.shtml

At the time of Barack’s birth, both of his parents were students at the East-West Center of the University of Hawaii at Manoa; Barack’s stepfather, Lolo SOETORO, was also a student at the East-West Center.

I find it interesting it speaks of microfinance that Stanley Ann was involved in Indonesia along with Geithners father. Their mission is also interesting.

http://www.eastwestcenter.org/home/

http://www.eastwestcenter.org/research/research-program-overview/population-and-health/

Mission and Organization Overview
Over its nearly fifty years of serving as a U.S.-based institution for public diplomacy in the Asia Pacific region with international governance, staffing, students, and participants, the Center has built a worldwide network of more than 55,000 alumni and 600 partner organizations.

His mother was American therefore he is natural born.

FYI, the birthers actually have a point on this. You know what they say about broken clocks.

If Obie Jr. really really was born outside the US (I know he wasn't, but let's pretend for a minute), he would not be a US citizen at birth because his mother did not meet the residency requirements to convey automatic US citizenship on her son. The 1952 immigration and nationality act required the US citizen parent to have lived in the US for at least 5 years following her 16th birthday. Being only 19 years old, she did not meet that requirement.

But of course, this is all moot since he was born in Hawaii.

Some birthers use the above to establish a motive for her to have fraudulantly registered his birth in Hawaii. That argument fails because her status as a US citizen would entitle her to naturalize her son as soon as she returned to the USA. Now why would she risk a felony fraud conviction when she could obtain citizenship for her son through perfectly legal means?

Not nearly as childishly illogical as those who concoct elaborate explanations on how Obama could be born in Kenya but his birth announcement still made it into the paper in the same issue as all those children born in the same week were.

My posts focused solely on one or two points. You used illogical thinking to argue with those points, and are now attempting to use other non-related arguments rather than continue discussing those points. Discussions like that get nowhere. Other people on this thread have addressed your concerns on your point above, so go argue with them on that issue.

Make no mistake, BHO and his cronies will push this nation to armed revolution before the next presidential election. The puppet master behind this president wants this, as do most leftists who hold office.

I disagree. I can't what benefit there would be for the Left to push this country into armed revolution when they are having such success moving the US into socialism without having to fire a shot. Revolution would be a HUGE risk, because the conservative US population is armed to the teeth and most of the military would side with them. I think the Left wants to push the socialist agenda through bureaucracy and legislation, and they are counting on Americans being too passive to resist by force.

See post #263 for a debunking of the birther claim that mama Obama had a motive to fraudulantly register Bambi as being born in Hawaii had he really been born outside the US.

It's now up to two million.

Source please. I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

You have no idea where these announcements came from

Yes we do. If you look at the top of the page, the paper clearly indicates that they come from the Department of Health. A spokesman for one of the papers also confirmed that in 1960's, all the announcements came directly from the department.

Every American Citizen must PROVE he is such to obtain employment in this nation.

A COLB will suffice.

I’m not the one that is detested on FR. You are.

Oh woe is me! Mojitojoe detests me! Scratch that, mojitojoe and his buddies detest me! What ever will I do? How can I possibly carry on?

Obviously, the grandparents would want to file in Hawaii and take advantage of their lax laws to get ole Barry American Passport etc.

See post 263. Even if Obama weren't born in the US, his mom could obtain US citizenship for him easily and legally. Why in the world would she risk a felony conviction by trying to fraudulantly register his birth in Hawaii?

In your opinion. Courts are on record disagreeing.

Nope. The courts have avoided the issue.