Free Republic

The company whose bus crashed early Friday in Sherman was operating illegally, and federal authorities are urging state and local police to intercept any tour bus associated with its owner. Iguala BusMex was formed just two months ago after another bus company, operated by the same owner, was barred from making out-of-state tours after a long history of safety violations. Those two companies both list addresses on Telephone Road in Houston and are led by Angel De la Torre.

University of Texas-Brownsville and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security reached an agreement in a Brownsville federal court Thursday that will end plans for the construction of a border fence that would have severed the university golf course from the rest of campus. District Judge Andrew Hanen ordered the two sides to reappear in court on Tuesday with a written agreement to the dispute. As part of the agreement, the university will enhance an existing fence on the campus.... UT-Brownsville President Juliet Garcia said at a press conference following the hearing that the UT System has volunteered to pay the...

The flow of illegal immigrants into the country appears to have declined over the last year, at least partly due to the chilling effect of stepped-up enforcement, according to a report released today by a Washington think tank that advocates stricter limits on immigration. The study by the Center for Immigration Studies based its findings on Census data indicating that the number of less-educated, working-aged Hispanic immigrants--defined as 18- to 40-year-olds with a high school diploma or less--has dropped by more than 10 percent, or about 830,000 people since last August. Previous research suggests that a large share of less-educated...

A Rochester native has filed a civil lawsuit against an Arab sheik who was convicted of beating him in the bar of a posh hotel in Geneva, Switzerland. In a lawsuit filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in San Diego, Calif., Silvano D. Orsi asks for an unspecified monetary amount from Sheik Falah bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan for past, present and future physical pain and suffering, mental anguish and loss of earning capacity. A police tribunal last month convicted the sheik, a member of the ruling family of the United Arab Emirates, of inflicting "bodily harm with the...

The House Appropriations Committee on Tuesday approved a bill that provides the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) $39.9 billion in discretionary spending for fiscal year 2009. This represents $2.3 billion more than President Bush's request and about a six percent increase over the $37.67 billion enacted for fiscal year 2008. Specifically, the House bill provides $9.7 billion for Customs and Border Protection, about $272 million more than enacted in fiscal year 2008 and $207 million more than the President's request. It also provides Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) $4.8 billion, roughly $72.8 million more than in fiscal year 2008 and...

SOUTH PADRE ISLAND - Border congressmen and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus are looking into ways of de-funding the Department of Homeland Security so it cannot continue constructing a border wall. Opponents of the border wall in Congress are not sure if they can succeed with this strategy but they have not given up hope of putting sufficient congressional hurdles in place so that the project is delayed until after the November presidential election. Border congressmen say that because Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff waived more than 30 laws and regulations in order to speed up construction of the border wall,...

In all the commentary on Israel's 60th anniversary that has appeared on these pages over the last week, little has been said about what may be the most remarkable and important attribute of the Jewish state: the rule of law. Noting, as so many have, that Israel is a democracy in a region awash with totalitarianism is important, but that broad concept has many specific attributes. At the core of democracy is a method by which undemocratic or illegal behaviour by government can be challenged by citizens. If such challenges are successful, government must then be bound to change its...

Recently I asked a group of future leaders in a rural Nebraska community whether they were familiar with the term “rule of law.” A couple of hands went up, half-heartedly. The theme for Law Day 2008 is “The Rule of Law: Foundation for Communities of Opportunity and Equity.” The importance of the rule of law is apparently not well understood, lacks support and there even may be hostility toward it. For some, notably politicized faith communities, the rule of law means the loss of their values agenda. So I posed this to a friend: Suppose you had a strong values-based...

WASHINGTON -- The FBI is grappling with growing numbers of public corruption cases and a surge in mortgage fraud investigations, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Thursday, wondering aloud whether Americans are "becoming more crooked." In a speech to the American Bar Association, Mueller asked the assembled defense lawyers for help in "creating a culture of integrity" by reporting evidence of wrongdoing by politicians and corporate executives alike. "Anyone who follows the news these days and sees repeated references to corporate fraud and public corruption might think the nation is in the midst of a moral crisis," Mueller told the defense...

Why Didn’t Berkeley Police Defend Pro-Troop Demonstrators? by Catherine Moy Posted: 03/31/2008 The nation’s largest pro-troop nonprofit organization is asking the U.S. Attorney’s office in San Francisco to investigate whether the city of Berkeley has broken federal laws by encouraging radical anti-war groups to “impede” a U.S. Marine recruiting office and failing to protect pro-troop demonstrators.An attorney for Move America Forward asks in a letter to the Honorable Joseph P. Russoniello, U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California, to investigate the lack of police response during a Feb. 12 Berkeley rally at which anti-war agitators attacked and injured...

Fairfax, Va. (CNSNews.com) - In advance of today's Potomac Primaries in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C., former President Bill Clinton led a rally for his wife's campaign at George Mason University Monday night. Although polls show Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) trailing Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) in Maryland and the District, some analysts think Clinton has a chance in Virginia. The "first thing that you want in a president is somebody who will keep big bad things from happening," President Clinton told the crowd at GMU. A president must also "make sure good things happen." The former president said the nation...

...Certainly it is true that when Rowan Williams -- the archbishop of Canterbury, spiritual leader of the Church of England, symbolic leader of the international Anglican Communion -- called for "constructive accommodation" with some aspects of sharia law, and declared the incorporation of Muslim religious law into the British legal system "unavoidable," practically no insult has been left unsaid....Arguing that his remarks were misunderstood and taken out of context, his office even took the trouble to publish them on his official Web site. I highly recommend a closer look. Reading them, it instantly becomes clear that every syllable of the...

I'm guessing they were Mexican nationals because it was the Border Patrol that nabbed them, but I guess it's within the realm of possibilities that they were Americans making a run for the border. The ballot box was stolen from a precinct in Coachella. Coachella is heavily Republican, that's Bono country. Some Democratic true believers messing with the election? Maybe some illegals who weren't happy with Romney's opposition to McCain amnesty. Very odd. Customs & Border Patrol February 06, 2008 press release: Indio, Calif. – Last night Border Patrol agents detained four individuals in Mecca, Calif. suspected of being involved...

Video: http://www.breitbart.tv/html/8973.html Background: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars 04:00 PM CST on Monday, December 3, 2007 By Taylor Timmins / KHOU.com & The Associated Press Riot police were on the scene in a Pasadena neighborhood Sunday afternoon as a planned protest teetered on the brink of mayhem. Quanell X and his followers planned to meet in front of the home of Joe Horn, the man who shot and killed two suspected burglars at his neighbor’s home last month, in the 7400 block of Timberline for a protest around 3 p.m. But they were met with an...

 For those who hold the Constitution of the United States in high regard and who are concerned about the fate of its principles in our contemporary practice of government, the modern state ought to receive significant attention. The reason for this is that the ideas that gave rise to what is today called "the administrative state" are fundamentally at odds with those that gave rise to our Constitution. In fact, the original Progressive-Era architects of the administrative state understood this quite clearly, as they made advocacy of this new approach to government an important part of their direct, open, comprehensive...

Other than the right to bear children well into one’s 60s and unashamedly express the love of one’s own mama, former Sen. Fred Thompson and I agree on just about nothing. He’s anti-choice (and would overturn Roe v. Wade), he doubts humanity’s responsibility for global warming and he not only supported the invasion of Iraq, but wants to keep boots on the ground till the proverbial cows come home, which, hope-soaked hearings to the contrary, seems to be when the whole Middle East is turned to pasture. Granted, the man thinks “mistakes have been made,” but he also believes that...

* First and foremost, control the borders and enforce the laws we have. Immigration laws aren't effective if we dodge or ignore them. And amnesty is not the answer. * We need to quit condoning illegal immigration through couching language and compromising justifications. Using terms like "undocumented immigration" only complicates the issue. Illegal is illegal. To justify or exempt one illegality will only open the floodgates for others. Haven't we condoned enough already? * Don't just write your representatives – hound them about the issues of illegal immigrants and terrorist importations. To speak against illegal immigration is not racist but...

WASHINGTON, Aug. 13, 2007 – Establishing the necessary components to enable the rule of law to function across Iraq’s society is vital to creating stable institutions and lasting security in that country, a U.S. military lawyer said in Baghdad today. The Iraqi government is making measurable progress toward that goal by providing fair and impartial courts, professional lawyers, judges and police, and modern and humane detention facilities, Army Col. Mark Martins, Multinational Force Iraq’s senior legal official, told reporters at a news conference. “The rule of law is a principle of governance which holds that your fate depends not on...

SAN FRANCISCO - The Supreme Court's most recent term was a difficult one, Justice Stephen Breyer said Saturday, because he found himself on the losing end of several key cases. "I was in dissent quite a lot and I wasn't happy," Breyer said at the American Bar Association's annual meeting. Breyer was one of four liberal justices who dissented in cases involving abortion rights, school integration and pay discrimination. In the school case, in which the court struck down student assignment plans in Louisville, Ky., and Seattle, his frustration bubbled over in a lengthy dissent that was twice as long...

Am I the only one left in America who is sane enough to see something horribly disturbing about these two headlines? US Court Orders Release Of Enemy Combatant From Military Detention and Paris Hilton Ordered Back To Jail… Do I understand this correctly? Spoiled little rich snobs caught speeding without a drivers license must do hard time, but members of Al Qaeda and enemy combatants must go free? (snip) To the best of anyone’s knowledge, Paris Hilton is not plotting to destroy anything more than a good party, while those enjoying free room and board at Gitmo would like nothing...

Sikhs have gone to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg to challenge a French law banning the wearing of turbans for ID documents. The United Sikhs organisation filed a complaint on behalf of French national Shingara Mann Singh, 52, who was refused a replacement driver's licence. By law applicants have to remove all headgear for security reasons. A French law adopted in 2004 also bans the wearing of conspicuous religious symbols in state schools. Several Sikh boys have been expelled from schools in France for defying the ban, which also applies to Muslim headscarves. Stolen Mr Singh was...

The negligence – even recklessness – in the discharge of their duties to the nation by the President and Congress in permitting illegal immigration to continue, and their support of legislation which would encourage illegal immigrants to stay in this country or prompt others to enter in defiance of our laws are disgraceful. Such strong language is warranted and more. I am in a better position than most to judge the impact of illegal immigration. My background is in international studies and international law, which I taught for years at a local university. I have provided briefings for the military...

5-year term for investigator in forgery case - "I believe that the death penalty is illegal...It is barbaric and an atrocity...Any acts I committed are out of a firm belief against the state killing these people." Mark Martin, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau Tuesday, May 1, 2007 (05-01) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- A former criminal defense investigator accused of forging statements from jurors, witnesses and others in death penalty cases pleaded guilty to four charges Monday and accepted a five-year prison sentence. Kathleen Culhane, 40, said outside a Sacramento courtroom that she filed incorrect documents on behalf of five condemned inmates because...

<p>The most controversial component of the Senate's Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 is Title VI, euphemistically entitled "Nonimmigrants in the United States Previously in Unlawful Status." It would create a new "Z" visa exclusively for illegal aliens. This title would change the status of those who are here illegally to legal, essentially granting amnesty to those "previously in unlawful status." This seriously flawed proposal would undermine the rule of law by granting massive benefits to those who have willfully violated U.S. laws, while denying those benefits to those who have played by the rules and sometimes even to U.S. citizens.</p>

The Case for the Strong Executive HARVEY C. MANSFIELD Complaints against the "imperial presidency" are back in vogue. With a view to President Bush, the late Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. expanded and reissued the book of the same name he wrote against Richard Nixon, and Bush critics have taken up the phrase in a chorus. In response John Yoo and Richard Posner (and others) have defended the war powers of the president. This is not the first time that a strong executive has been attacked and defended, and it will not be the last. Our Constitution, as long as it...

WASHINGTON, March 28, 2007 ? Security progress in Baghdad requires more than military success; it also requires advances in Iraq?s institutions, including its criminal justice system, a Multinational Force Iraq spokesman said today. ?We can and will win every battle, but we cannot win the peace alone,? Navy Adm. Mark Fox said during a media roundtable in Baghdad. ?Even-handed justice is an essential part of every democratic society.? After decades under Saddam Hussein?s repressive regime, ?the Iraqi government is creating an independent judicial system to ensure that the rule of law applies to everyone,? he said. James Santelle, Justice...

"Do your students say the Pledge of Allegiance?" That was the question I posed in several ways to Marcos Aguilar, a founder and now the Tlayecantzi or "school guide" at Academia de Semillas del Pueblo Xinaxcalmecac. You see, it's charter school renewal season in Los Angeles and Semillas del Pueblo ("Seeds of the People"), a 318-student, K-7 charter in El Sereno, is one of 18 schools whose contracts will soon get a thumbs up or thumbs down from the Los Angeles Unified School District. ... But what about the trickier, more philosophical, some would say irrelevant: "To what extent do...

Court rejects N.Y. Times on leak probe 47 minutes ago The Supreme Court ruled against The New York Times on Monday, refusing to block the government from reviewing the phone records of two Times reporters in a leak investigation of a terrorism-funding probe. The one-sentence order came in a First Amendment battle that involves stories written in 2001 by Times reporters Judith Miller and Philip Shenon revealing the government's plans to freeze the assets of two Islamic charities, the Holy Land Foundation and the Global Relief Foundation. Shenon and Miller called the two organizations for comment after being told by...

Seven-Year-Old on Mission for His Mom - Lobbies Mexican Lawmakers to Prevent Her Deportation From U.S. Four-foot-tall second-grader Saul Arellano, a U.S. citizen, was to stand before 500 members of the lower house of the Mexican Congress on Tuesday to plead for their help in lobbying Washington to stop the deportation of his migrant mother, who has taken refuge in a Chicago church. His fight is being closely watched on both sides of the border: The result could set a precedent for more than 3 million children, like him, who are Americans born to at least one parent who is...

It was raining in Washington last week, and vendors selling $5 and $10 umbrellas appeared on the streets.They had Hispanic accents, and were undoubtedly some of the unskilled immigrants that Steven Malanga referred to in his recent City Journal article, "How Unskilled Immigrants Hurt Our Economy." I already had an umbrella. But the many purchasers of the umbrellas did not seem to notice that the economy was being hurt. Rather, they were glad of the opportunity to stay dry before their important meetings. The City Journal article is worth a look because it reflects an attitude becoming more common these...

Russia is not quite the bear that the dragon of China is. But Russia still has appeal despite the many real obstacles and challenges a business partner might face. The laws change seemingly on a whim; the government jumps in and out of relationships; work stops; a GM factory faced a temporary shutdown when it couldn't come to terms with a state-owned partner. Still, there are a number of joint ventures in the news. Despite the problems that GM has been having, the automotive retail group Inchcape hopes to team up with Moscow's automotive retailer Independence Group. Inchcape has operations...

NANCY PELOSI WHACKS JACK MURTHA (MONONGAHELA, June 29) – Washington County Commissioner and Pennsylvania 12th district Republican Congressional nominee Diana Irey – responding to a statement by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, in which Pelosi says the Supreme Court’s decision in the Guantanamo Bay case “reaffirms the rule of law” – today released the following statement: “A little while ago, Nancy Pelosi released a statement to the press regarding today’s Supreme Court decision on military commissions trying detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Here’s what she said: “Today’s Supreme Court decision reaffirms the American ideal that all are entitled to the basic...

Russia is growing, and so are the shadows that are cast over the business proceedings there. The bureaucracy is still extremely burdensome and growing. And laws are a matter of convenience and seemingly circumvented at will -- or at least when you have the right connections. Corruption and middlemen are a matter of course, and bribes are expected and given. Confiscation of private goods -- i.e., Motorola's ongoing fiasco -- and resale for profit is old news. Legitimate dealings are called smuggling. And smuggling is called smuggling. Russian law allows confiscated material in criminal investigations to be sold or destroyed...

After Socrates was convicted by a court of questionable charges, his friends planned to break him out of his jail in Athens. But the philosopher refused to flee. Instead, he insisted that a citizen who lived in a consensual society should not pick and choose which laws he finds convenient to obey. Selective compliance, Socrates warned, would undermine the moral integrity of the entire legal system, ensuring anarchy. And so, as Plato tells us, the philosopher accepted the court's death sentence and drank the deadly hemlock. Socrates' final lesson about the sanctity of the law is instructive now in our...

Doing nothing while natives run riot Lorne Gunter National Post Monday, June 12, 2006 Whatever the merits of the native land claims in Caledonia, Ont., all negotiations and government concessions must now end until native protesters agree to dismantle their barricades and end their illegal occupation of a housing development they claim is on aboriginal land. The protesters' lawlessness has been allowed to go on too long. More importantly, their behaviour is getting worse, not better. Rewarding it with further deference -- with promises that their grievances will be heard before their violence and illegality have ended -- will...

Native protest imperils 'rule of law' hearing: Lawyer calls for use of force in Ontario land dispute Adrian Humphreys National Post Friday, June 02, 2006 CAYUGA, Ont. - A judge, fearing that native blockades were destroying the "rule of law" in his community, forced nearly a dozen lawyers into his rural Ontario courthouse yesterday for a highly unusual court hearing. As more than a dozen Ontario Provincial Police officers ringed the historic courthouse in Cayuga, about an hour's drive southwest of Hamilton, almost as many lawyers gathered inside before Justice T. David Marshall, the senior Ontario Superior Court judge...

An e-mail written by Supreme Court President Aharon Barak made justifiable waves last week - but for the wrong reason. What grabbed headlines was Barak's citation of Justice Minister Haim Ramon's prediction that were the Knesset to extend the current Citizenship Law unchanged, the High Court of Justice would overturn it. That, however, was hardly news to anyone who read last week's 6-5 ruling upholding the law, since one of the majority justices stated explicitly that he considered the law unconstitutional, and refrained from striking it down only because it expires in two months anyway. What was truly noteworthy about...

BUSH SET FOR IMMIGRATION SPEECH WHITE HOUSE President Bush is getting set for a prime-time speech on immigration tomorrow night. Aides note the 8 p-m, Eastern Time, speech will be the president's first from the Oval Office that does not involve Iraq and the war on terrorism. And they say that reflects Bush's "passion" on immigration. He's speaking as the Senate is poised to clear a compromise measure including his idea for a guest worker program. However, a rival House bill is limited to a border crackdown, and meshing the two won't be easy. Stand Up For America !...

May 12, 2006 — Americans by nearly a 2-1 ratio call the surveillance of telephone records an acceptable way for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, expressing broad unconcern even if their own calling patterns are scrutinized. Lending support to the administration's defense of its anti-terrorism intelligence efforts, 63 percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll say the secret program, disclosed Thursday by USA Today, is justified, while far fewer, 35 percent, call it unjustified. Indeed, 51 percent approve of the way President Bush is handling the protection of privacy rights, while 47 percent disapprove — hardly a...

The Supreme Court split 5-4 Wednesday to let the Bush administration deport a British man for breaking the law in Mississippi. Kiren Kumar Bharti's request for a stay was supported by the court's four most liberal members: Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. They did not explain their votes.

It's time to play hard ball. Our lawmakers seem to have forgotten that there are real consequences for ignoring lawbreaking. Lawmakers will get this done or taxpayers will know the reason why. The rule of law demands serious consequences for ignoring lawbreaking. Now is the time for law-abiding citizenry of America notify the US Dept of Justice, that many of our "so-called lawmakers"---who are under oath---are ignoring our laws, and are aiding and abetting the illegal activities of aliens on US soil. Disregarding the committing of crimes is a crime in itself. PARTIAL LIST OF IMMIGRANTS' FEDERAL CRIMINAL FELONIES...

Remember the dopey DUmmie plan to surround the White House or some such nonsense? It has been almost completely FORGOTTEN because it just fizzled out completely. One big reason is that it would have actually required the DUmmies to remove their carcasses from in front of their computer screens and actually DO something (which is why DUAC also flopped). Well, they haven't given up. DUmmie benburch, in his reliably nutcase way, has come up with another KOOKIE plan that requires the DUmmies to converge on Washington as you can see in this THREAD titled, "Lets not WAIT for Impeachment....

The Times March 23, 2006 Insanity clause could save Christian convert From Richard Beeston Diplomatic Editor and Tim Albone in Kabul PRESIDENT BUSH led international condemnation of Afghanistan yesterday over the case of a Muslim who converted to Christianity and now faces the death penalty under the country’s Islamic laws. He criticised the Afghan authorities, saying that liberated countries needed to respect democratic rights. “I am deeply troubled when I hear that a person who may have converted away from Islam may be held accountable,” Mr Bush said. His comments came after the arrest of Abdul Rahman this month. Under...

The clues lie on a bumpy road leading to the world’s worst library. They call Douala the “armpit of Africa.” Lodged beneath the bulging shoulder of West Africa, this malaria-infested city in southwestern Cameroon is humid, unattractive, and smelly. On a torrid evening in late 2001, I was guided out of the chaotic Douala International Airport by my friend Andrew and his driver, Sam, who would have whisked us immediately to the cooler hillside town of Buea if Douala were at all conducive to being whisked anywhere. It isn’t. Douala, a city of 2 million people, has no real roads....

European Court Sanctions Russia (CTK) March 2, 2006 -- The European Court of Human Rights today found Russia guilty on two counts of illegal imprisonment, and ordered it to pay damages to a Kazakh banker and an opponent of President Vladimir Putin. The banker, Lev Alexandrovich Nakhmanovich was extradited from Switzerland to Russia in 1997 on suspicion of embezzlement and held for three years. In 2004 charges against him were dropped. The court found that nearly a year of his imprisonment had been without legal foundation and ordered Moscow to pay him $21,000. Valentina Andreievna Dolkgova was arrested in December...

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH (Stephen Stills Version)The South Dakota Abortion Decision Friends: Most of you know by now that the people of South Dakota have chosen to outlaw almost all forms of abortion in that state. Two or three other states are following their lead, or will follow it soon. This news gladdens me to no end. It is wrong to kill a human being for any reason other than in defense of self or others. It is doubly wrong to kill an innocent child. The only circumstance under which a murder-by-abortion can morally be performed is in defense of...

They were loyal conservatives, and Bush appointees. They fought a quiet battle to rein in the president's power in the war on terror. And they paid a price for it. A NEWSWEEK investigation. Feb. 6, 2006 issue - James Comey, a lanky, 6-foot-8 former prosecutor who looks a little like Jimmy Stewart, resigned as deputy attorney general in the summer of 2005. The press and public hardly noticed. Comey's farewell speech, delivered in the Great Hall of the Justice Department, contained all the predictable, if heartfelt, appreciations. But mixed in among the platitudes was an unusual passage. Comey thanked "people...

It's a new blog about illegal immigration in the United States! Instead of just bloviating about the problem, this site will track illegal immigration and illegal immigrants in the news. YOUR HELP IS NEEDED!! When you find illegal immigration stories in your local news or take photos of suspected illegal immigrant activity, please submit them to the blog! With your help, this site will shed a light on how pervasive the problem of illegal immigration in America truly is. The site to bookmark is: http://illegalimmigrationinfo.blogspot.com/

Swedish firms face Iraq bribes probe Published: 2nd January 2006 18:15 CET Swedish companies accused of paying kickbacks to Saddam Hussein’s regime as part of the scandal-hit UN Oil for Food programme are to be investigated by prosecutors in Stockholm. Announcing the investigation in a statement on Monday, Sweden’s chief anti-corruption prosecutor Christer van der Kwast said he would look into “everything that could be considered relevant and which has a Swedish link that makes it possible to prosecute in Sweden.” “This naturally means that we’re talking about an as yet unidentified group,” he said, but added that the investigation...

I wonder what would happen if I were to march into Governor Daniels' office and declare, "Pack your stuff and git, Mich; I'm the Governor now." We all know what should happen. He should use his executive power to have me dragged away. But judging from recent events, I wonder if he'd instead say, "I just think it's regrettable," and shuffle out of his office, mumbling something about "activist citizens?" In claiming that public prayers can't mention Jesus Christ, Federal District Court Judge David Hamilton invoked the so-called "establishment clause" in the US Constitution's 1st Amendment. In response, our Governor...