Keyword: pagans
-
In 1956, Nikita Khrushchev addressed a closed session of the 20th Congress of the Soviet Communist Party. For nearly four hours, he spoke about the unspeakable: the crimes of his predecessor, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin. Though listeners were warned not to reveal what was said, and the speech would not be published for 32 years, word leaked out. The most widely told story, probably apocryphal, had it that as Khrushchev was detailing the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out within the Gulag, someone in the audience shouted: "And what were you doing then?" "Who said that?" Khrushchev demanded. No...
-
There is a new Paganism taking root around the world and it manifests itself as environmentalism or more explicitly, Pantheism, a doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena, Fundamentalist Environmentalism, if you will. Pantheism is a metaphysical and religious position, it is the view that "God is everything and everything is God, the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature” Similarly, it is the view that everything that exists constitutes a "unity" and this all-inclusive unity is in some sense divine. Anthropologists have observed in cultures the world over...
-
By the power of Zeus, ancient gods are back Worship of the 12 gods of Mount Olympus associated with ancient Greece could, thanks to a decision by a first-instance court in Athens, become part of the country’s contemporary culture. In a ruling made public yesterday, the court allowed the formation of an association whose members claim to worship Zeus and the other 11 gods. “I support everybody’s right to practice their faith, whichever it may be, without hindrance,” said Apostolos Vrachiolidis, a journalist and one of the founding members of the association. Members of the group deny that they engage...
-
One thing must be noted at the outset – Not only is there nothing authentically Jewish about the agenda of the Jewish Left – It is, in fact, anti-Jewish in every detail. It rejects Torah-based morality, sanctions Muslim and left-wing anti-Semitism and champions causes that would lead to the extinction of the Jewish people – not to mention the end of civilization. OK, now I’ll tell you what I really think. Though they occasionally try to justify themselves with vague references to what they call "Jewish tradition" – and often include in their ranks those to whom the title "rabbi"...
-
Witches have returned to the German forests, dancing naked in groups under the full moon and calling to their gods. The covens vary in size and in how seriously they take their calling, but the numbers are rising, particularly amongst the young. Their religious ideas are described as "pagan" rather than Satanist, and many of the older practitioners have a history in the environmental movement, where they learnt a passionate love of nature. In some cases this has led on to a belief in the natural powers of the forests. The women are convinced they can work magic. "The witches'...
-
Mr. Moderator: I realize this is a vanity, but this is a question that I've never seen really raised here on Free Republic either by article or by vanity and I don't think it should be relegated elsewhere until it is thrashed about on Jim's main board. I've been a Freeper since 2000, so please honor this one request. What were the Muslims before the Prophet? Riots everyday against non-muslim institutions because of, primarily, a series of cartoons. As a nation that was founded upon Judeo-Christian ideals, but one that also founded upon the philosophy of accepting all religions as...
-
CHICAGO, Dec. 26 (UPI) -- The largest annual Kwanzaa celebration of African-American culture in the United States began Monday at Malcolm X College in Chicago. Ayoka Samuels, a consultant for the college's Kwanzaa committee said a major misconception is that about the seven-day festival is that it's meant to be "the black Christmas," the Chicago Sun-Times said. Samuels said many who celebrate it do substitute it for Christmas, and if gifts are exchanged, they must be either educational or a symbol of African heritage. Maulana Ron Karenga, now a professor of black studies at California State University, Long Beach, created...
-
Two druid priests yesterday became the first North Wales same-sex couple to tie the knot in a so-called gay wedding. Seven couples across the region took part in the historic ceremonies. And one wedding guest said if the controversial partnerships were introduced earlier, an inheritance tax legal battle after his partner of 48 years died, could have been avoided. The first North Wales ceremony was held in T£ Dewi Sant, Wrexham, between Philip Main, 49, and David Girvan, 52. The keen druids both dressed in white robes for the 10am ceremony - which fell on the winter solstice, also a...
-
Hilary Karnda, a holistic healer and herbalist, told her friend Nov. 2 she was going to a send-off at Wildcat Mountain State Park and she needed a ride. She didn't tell her friend she was going away to die. Pagan symbols found with her were the only clues investigators had to who she was when hunters found her body in the woods off Highway 131, in the park but not along a trail, on Thanksgiving Day. Karnda, 64, died of exposure to the Wisconsin November cold, Vernon County Sheriff Gene Cary said Friday. "There was no indication of fatal illness,...
-
On October 31, the Associated Press reported that a Dutch court ruled that the costs of witchcraft lessons could be tax-deductible. Meanwhile, Zenit News Agency is reporting that in England, Portsmouth’s Kingston Prison has hired a pagan chaplain to advise three inmates who are currently serving life-sentences. A London newspaper has also reported that pagan priests in prisons will be allowed to use wine and wands in ceremonies. Pagan inmates will be allowed hoodless robes, incense, and religious jewelry. These incidents clearly indicate that paganism is on the rise. But why? Catherine Sanders has tried to answer this question in...
-
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, NOV. 26, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Witchcraft is moving into the mainstream in the Netherlands. A Dutch court has ruled that the costs of witchcraft lessons can be tax-deductible, the Associated Press reported Oct. 31. The previous month, the Leeuwarden District Court confirmed the legal right to write off the costs of schooling -- including in witchcraft -- against tax bills. The costs can be substantial, according to one witch interviewed for the article. Margarita Rongen runs the "Witches Homestead" in a northern province. Her workshops cost more than $200 a weekend, or more than $2,600 for a full course....
-
Witches, pagans give Christmas curseFrom: By Milanda Rout, Geraldine Mitchell and Tanya Giles November 22, 2005 Curse ... witches and pagans have cursed Victorian Premier Steve Bracks after he ruled schools should celebrate Christmas/(file photo) WITCHES and pagans yesterday cursed the Bracks Government for asking all Victorian schools to celebrate Christmas with carols, nativity scenes and other Christian traditions. But the Government's decree has been strongly supported and welcomed by schools and religious leaders. The Pagan Awareness Network said several pagan parents had raised concerns their children were being forced to sing hymns and carols in school assemblies against their...
-
Gwyneth Paltrow is one. So are Angelina Jolie and Leonardo di Caprio. Chances are your bikram yoga teacher has the major characteristics and so does the guy who makes your fruit smoothie at Jamba Juice. Donna Karan is totally in on it. The salesperson who helps you find the right Botanical Kinetics moisturizer at Aveda is probably one, along with your eco-tourism guide at Costa Rican surf camp. Richard Gere may be the proto-one and Uma Thurman was pretty much born into it. What is influencing Hollywood stars and Wal-Mart shoppers, fashionistas and Filene’s basement-dwellers alike? It’s called metrospirituality, and...
-
This Sunday, Buddha Buck and his friends made so many pancakes at Ithaca's First Unitarian Church that they ran out of batter. The breakfast that dozens enjoyed in the church's parlor was the fourth annual "Pancakes with the Pagans" breakfast within Ithaca's Unitarian Universalist (UU) Society. Some might see a contradiction between pagans and church, but in the First Unitarian Church of Ithaca, there is none. "It's not like we're trying to get pagans together with southern Baptists," Buck joked, explaining that his pagan group is actually a group within the UU congregation of Ithaca. Buck added there are numerous...
-
PAGAN priests will be allowed to use wine and wands during ceremonies in jails under instructions issued to every prison governor. Inmates practising paganism will be allowed a hoodless robe, incense and a piece of religious jewellery among their personal possessions. They will also be allowed to have Tarot cards but are forbidden from using them to tell the fortunes of other prisoners. The guidance, issued by Michael Spurr, the director of operations of the Prison Service, makes it clear that Skyclad (naked pagan worship) will not be permitted. Prison staff have been told that pagan artefacts should be treated...
-
Harry Potter? Just the tip of the iceberg! Take a look at this evidence, and tell me that the goat-burning Pentagrammers aren't after your tykes! Get thee behind me, Elmer Fudd!
-
Christians in San Diego are being summoned for "emergency" prayer and fasting to counter the "Pagan Pride" event scheduled for today in the seaside city. The third annual event, titled San Diego for Pagan Pride 2005, aims to "foster pride in pagan identity through education, activism, charity and community." But San Diegan James Hartline distributed an e-mail warning Christians that the "activities of Pagan Pride are so vile, that this notice could not reveal everything in one writing that they do. Extreme witchcraft, curses, demonic rituals, sacrificial altars and occultism are just some of the highlighted events occurring at Pagan...
-
A place to avoid, as advertised on DU: benburch (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-28-05 10:55 PM Original message August 27, Mendocino County, Witches’ Ball: A Sexy Witch Celebration Witches' Ball: A Sexy Witch Celebration A freaky, friendly, sex positive, size positive, queer positive, play positive, kitschy, kinky, Magickal Extravaganza! August 27, Mendocino County, address and other details available with ticket purchase. Come witness the unveiling of Sexy Witch by LaSara FireFox, help to kick off LaSara's 20-city (!!!) book tour with a silly, sexy, fun, celebration...and benefit two radical Mendocino County based women's groups in the process! Festivities will include: *...
-
NEW PORT RICHEY - Pagans are coming out of the closet. After years of being labeled as devil worshippers who sacrifice animals under a full moon, the modern-day followers of ancient beliefs want to be part of the community. In Pasco County, they're planning the first Pagan Pride Day in a popular city park. ``People think paganism is evil,'' said Robert Crom, regional coordinator for Pasco Pagans. ``Some people, especially among mainstream religions, feel threatened by us.'' Crom, 25, said he wants to clear up public misconceptions about pagan religions. The group, formed a couple of years ago by transplants...
-
INDIANAPOLIS - A judge who ordered two Wicca believers to shield their son from their "non-mainstream" faith overstepped his authority, an appeals court said Wednesday in dismissing the order. The Indiana Court of Appeals said state law gave a custodial parent the authority to determine a child's upbringing, including religious training. A judge could find that certain limitations were needed to protect a child from physical or emotional harm. The parents' appeal, brought by the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, claimed among other issues that the decree was unconstitutionally vague because it did not define mainstream religion. But the appeals court...
-
From Pagan resurgence to Pagan global culture - Interview with Selena FoxReligioscope 9 Aug 2005 In the original edition (1979) of her standard book on contemporary Paganism in the United States, "Drawing Down the Moon", Margot Adler wrote: “In the last ten years, alongside the often noted resurgence of 'occult' and 'magical' groups, a diverse and decentralized religious movement has sprung up that remains comparatively unnoticed, and when recognized, is generally misunderstood.” Those were people describing themselves as Pagans or Neo-Pagans. “The modern Pagan resurgence includes the new feminist goddess-worshipping groups, certain new religions based on the visions of...
-
-
BEIJING (AP) - A Chinese general said Beijing might respond with nuclear weapons if the United States attacked China in a conflict over Taiwan, news reports said Friday. While the general has no policy-making role in China, his comments could add to tensions with Washington at a time of U.S. worries about China's military buildup and the proposed takeover of the oil company Unocal Corp. by a Chinese state-run company. "If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition into the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," Maj.-Gen. Zhu Chenghu, a...
-
A traffic stop in Greer, S.C., this month is turning into a holy war of sorts, as a practicing Druid couple claim they were targeted by a Christian police officer who tried to convert them away from their pagan belief. Debra and Tony Gainey say they were pulled over because they had a bumper sticker reading "It's A Druid Thing." Tony Gainey was driving at the time of the stop June 10 and was taken into custody on charges of driving with a suspended license, operating a vehicle with an improper tag and failure to have proof of insurance....
-
INDIANAPOLIS — A Wiccan activist and his ex-wife are challenging a court order that they must protect their 9-year-old son from what the divorce decree terms their "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." Thomas E. Jones and Tammy Bristol of Indianapolis are fighting a Marion Superior Court stipulation that they shelter the boy from their religion. The Indiana Civil Liberties Union has taken on the case, appealing the December decree to the Indiana Court of Appeals. Jones, a Wiccan activist who has coordinated Pagan Pride Day in Indianapolis for the past six years, said he and his ex-wife were stunned when...
-
While browsing through the ancient Persian history, I was struck and fascinated by another subject Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism has not only made a major contribution to the ancient philosophical thought but has also had a deep imprint on the Persian history and culture. Since ages, man has been striving to search for the meaning and purpose of life. Two ancient philosophies threw up answers to this eternal quest. One came out of the Vedic thought of re-incarnation (samsara) which believed in perpetual cycles of life, death and re-birth. It believed that soul (atma) finally got liberated (moksha) based on man's good...
-
An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth. Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, kept the unusual provision in the couple's divorce decree last year over their fierce objections, court records show. The order does not define a mainstream religion. Bradford refused to remove the provision after the 9-year-old boy's outraged parents, Thomas E. Jones Jr. and his...
-
An Indiana appeals court must decide if a judge’s order prohibiting a nine-year-old from practicing his pagan beliefs will stand. A Marion County judge issued what some are calling an "unusual" order a year ago in a divorce court. It prohibits the boy from being exposed to "non-mainstream" religious beliefs. The ICLU took the case of Thomas Jones Jr. after a court divorce decree forbade him from exposing his son to his pagan beliefs. Jones says it's just not right for his boy not to be able to participate in his Wiccan practices and holidays. “I don't understand why the...
-
By Erik Kirschbaum CANNES, France (Reuters) - The dark underside of the United States has taken center stage in several films at Cannes this year, capped on Monday with a scathing attack of past and present racism in America by Danish director Lars von Trier. Von Trier, whose fear of flying has prevented him from visiting the United States, won thunderous cheers at the world premiere and a news conference, where he said he enjoyed bashing America on screen because it invades his life even in Denmark. "We are all under the influence -- and it's a very bad influence...
-
G. Gordon Liddy interviews William Queen, the Silver-Star Vietnam veteran ATF agent who infiltrated the Mongols motorcycle gang. Interesting tale of a mole "under and alone." (audio.) http://66.95.19.43:8081/GGordonLiddy/Liddy-&-Queen-5-10-05.mp3
-
War of the black magic cults brings death to Nigeria's universities By Christian Allen Purefoy in Ekpoma (Filed: 20/04/2005) War of the black magic cults brings death to Nigeria's universities By Christian Allen Purefoy in Ekpoma (Filed: 20/04/2005) If students at British universities are "freshers" or "finalists", their counterparts in Nigeria are members of the "Black Bras", the "Black Axes" or the "Pyrates". But there the similarity ends. While British students are struggling to pay tuition fees, their Nigerian counterparts are risking death in violent clashes between rival university cults steeped in black magic. "They indulge in all sorts of...
-
SOMERVILLE, N.J. Somerset County authorities say two members of the Pagans motorcycle gang shot and killed a man because he was wearing a Hells Angels T-shirt. A friend had given the shirt to John Grover, who didn't even own a motorcycle and was not a member of the gang. William ``Rodent'' Martin and Peter Ciarletta are charged with murder. Authorities say the two Pagans were sent to Gatto's Sports Cafe in Manville looking for someone associated with the Hells Angels on Sunday. Authorities say Martin opened fire on Grover, who was shot in the leg and abdomen. The 40-year-old died...
-
The original Latin noun Pagan, Paganis had a far different definition in the era of The Roman Republic than it does today. The term originated in the days before Constantine decreed Rome a Christian Empire. The Pagans lived far a field from Rome and grew its food supply in orchards and grain fields. They were often looked down upon as stupid and ill-informed. The noun had a negative connotation to it; like calling somebody a peckerwood today. Fast-forwarding to modern America gives us a totally different view. The modern zeitgeist concerning religion has been informed by the writings on Engels...
-
April Fool's Day is one of the most light hearted days of the year, yet it stems from a serious subject—the adoption of a new calendar. A Traditional New Year's Ancient cultures, including those as varied as the Romans and the Hindus, celebrated New Year's Day on April 1. It closely follows the vernal equinox (March 20th or March 21st.) In medieval times, much of Europe celebrated March 25, the Feast of Annunciation, as the beginning of the new year. In 1582, Pope Gregory XIII ordered a new calendar (the Gregorian Calendar) to replace the old Julian Calendar. The new...
-
They’re no fans of Christianity, but the followers of Gaia have discovered a funding stream through the Faith-Based and Community Initiative of President George W. Bush. Disciples of 21st-century Gaia believe that all living things on earth are interconnected (except man) and that to damage or destroy even the tiniest insect is the equivalent of wiping out an entire ecological system. In layman understanding: Don’t swat that fly hovering around the pablum you’re feeding the baby.
-
The Council for Interreligious Dialog organized a symposium on “traditional religions” and their contribution to peace. This meeting, which took place from the 12th to the 15th of January, is “a first performance”, according to Bishop Michael Fitzgerald, President of the Council for Interreligious Dialog, which however recalls the theological symposium on “traditional religions and the message of the Gospel”, held in 1996 at Abidjan. According to Bishop Fitzgerald, traditional religions are “ethnic” or “tribal” religions whose rites are passed from age to age by the peoples who practice them. The British archbishop gave as an example the Massai in...
-
By CHUCK ADAMSON of the Tribune’s staff Published Thursday, February 3, 2005 Cooper County pagans are coming to Columbia this weekend after being refused service in Hannibal. Rose Wise, high priestess administrator of the Ozark Avalon Church of Nature-Wicca, said the Hannibal Inn and Convention Center sent them a letter about 10 days ago saying their retreat planned months ago couldn’t be held there.
-
The Christian Underground http://www.christian-underground.com READ IT - LEARN FROM IT - PRAY OVER IT - SHARE IT --- Witches Kill Baby January 21, 2005 Little girl had 40 puncture wounds and a snapped neck Pagan tattoos may match baby girl's wounds Photos of couple's religious markings studied in probe of toddler's death Prosecutors have obtained photographs of a Springfield Township couple's neopagan tattoos in an effort to match the markings to puncture wounds on the woman's slain year-old daughter. Daniel Duffield and Vanessa McGlumphy are charged in connection with the neck-snapping death of McGlumphy's 13-month-old daughter Jacqueline Mae Cooper. Aside...
-
Dancing druids have flooded Canada Free Press letters to the editor ever since I wrote cover story, Green Pagans find way to White House Funding. Since then, practicing pagans from all walks of life have been "hoping" that my "tolerance level improves". Before they run out and start sticking pins into dolls that look very much like middle-aged female journalists, let me say that my tolerance level does include the belief that "pagans are people too". Where my tolerance level starts to wane is when pagans look for funding from the public purse. In my books, wiccans, wizards and witches...
-
Wednesday, December 29, 2004 Atheist: Christmas tree recycling unfairProgram changed because incentive said to favor ChristiansPosted: December 29, 20041:00 a.m. Eastern © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com An atheist activist forced Chicago to change its Christmas tree recycling program, complaining it was unfair to non-Christians. The city wanted to bolster its Blue Bag recycling program by offering a years worth of blue bags and some mulch to anyone who turned in a used Christmas tree. But Rob Sherman, known for his campaign to keep crosses off city seals, protested to Chicago, insisting the trees-for-bags exchange unfairly benefits Christians, the Chicago Tribune reported. "The concern was...
-
... Why did you become a pagan? ‘Oh,’ Steve leant back and stretched. ‘When I was young, I was a Christian, but I couldn’t take the idea that good people like Buddhists, for instance, are going to Hell. Then I met someone who was involved in the Fellowship of Isis, and the idea of the goddess just started making sense to me. But everybody finds their own way,’ he said. ‘I mean, 9,000 teenagers became Wiccan witches in England because of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.’ What!? ‘It’s true,’ said Steve. ‘When Buffy’s friend Willow became a lesbian witch, the WiccaUk...
-
Paganism is one of our fastest-growing religions. A druid explains why witchcraft appeals to 21st-century Britain The sky was already murky at 4 p.m. when I locked my bike outside Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese on Fleet Street. Inside, it was even murkier: wood-panelled corridors stretched off into the gloom, men in grey suits were wedged together, smoking Bensons and drinking bitter. No one looked even slightly like an Arch Priest of the Council of British Druid Orders. At 4:10 I found a separate little bar near the back of the pub. As I walked in, a big man with round...
-
Those poor pagans. Studying the magical arts and worshiping the divinity of nature are no easy tasks. Not when helpless trees are being ripped from Mother Earth by jovial Christians celebrating their little winter solstice get-togethers. But there is hope. To all my Wiccan, neopagan and belligerently atheist friends, you now have a new hero fighting the theocratic forces of tyranny: Estes Park Town Trustee David Habecker. It's true that his courageous stand - or rather, courageous sit - protesting the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance before each meeting of the town board would be a lot...
-
(MADISON, WIS.) The Freedom From Religion Foundation's gilt "Winter Solstice" sign is back in the first-floor rotunda of the Wisconsin State Capitol for the month of December. Composed by the group's founder, Anne Nicol Gaylor, the sign reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." The back of the sign carries the message: "State/Church: Keep Them Separate" and a little taped-on caveat, advising, "Thou shalt not steal."...
-
Danielle Woodwyk says her pagan faith is about love, but worries others may draw darker conclusions from a criminal-sexual conduct case police say involved paganism. The Kentwood mother says nothing in her religion condones the sexual relationship and pagan marriage that authorities say teacher Elizabeth Miklosovic, 36, had with a 14-year-old former student. "We support bonds of love, whatever you feel is right for you, but you have laws to abide by," said Woodwyk, 24. Other members of West Michigan's small pagan community also condemned Miklosovic's alleged use of a pagan ceremony to initiate the abuse. "Paganism strives for responsibility,"...
-
This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which follows. To view this item online, visit http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41762 Saturday, December 4, 2004 BRAVE NEW SCHOOLSLesbian teacher 'married' girl in pagan ritualFaces criminal charges for sexually assaulting former student Posted: December 4, 20041:00 a.m. Eastern © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com A female teacher who allegedly "married" a 14-year-old girl in a pagan ritual faces criminal-sexual conduct charges in Michigan. Elizabeth Miklosovic, 36, of Grand Rapids faces a possible life sentence for her conduct with a former student at Baseline Middle School in South Haven, Mich., the Muskegon Chronicle reported. "They also participated in witchcraft...
-
DOWNINGTOWN, Pa. - Two Episcopal priests who led Druidic activity will not be suspended, said a bishop, who blamed the local scandal on conservative groups out to destabilize the Episcopal Church USA. The Rev. William Melnyk and his wife, the Rev. Glyn Ruppe-Melnyk, had participated only in "exploratory thinking" with Druid circles as students of pre-Christian Celtic spirituality, said Bishop Charles E. Bennison, leader of the Episcopal Diocese of Pennsylvania. But his discussions with the couple, he said, convinced him that they had not led any Druid groups or joined nature-worshiping Druid rites. "They made a small error of judgment...
-
Today, while browsing the In-Tar-Net, a friend pointed out to me the website of a young lady who offered up what is quite possibly the oddest explanation for the Kerry defeat that I’ve read so far. She writes:Magical Election Tampering: SHUT IT DOWN! Ok, I can understand the restlessness I've been feeling since yesterday. There's a lot riding on this election, and passions are running high on both sides, so naturally eceryone and their naked brother who has an ounce of Power and no clue about Shielding is leaking energy like a hair dryer in a bathtub. So it's Shields...
-
An Episcopal clergy couple from the Philadelphia area whose leadership in a druid circle caused a scandal in the Episcopal Church say they have "recanted" their actions.
-
DOWNINGTOWN, Pa. - Two Episcopal priests face possible punishment from the church after it was discovered that they were leaders of a local society of Druids, people who follow a pre-Christian practice of worshipping the sun and venerating the Earth. While directing parishes in Malvern and Downingtown, the Rev. Glyn Ruppe-Melnyk and the Rev. William Melnyk, a married couple, were also spiritual guides to local Druids. On Thursday, after national Christian groups and Internet bloggers accused the Episcopal Church USA of promoting paganism through the priests' activities, the two wrote letters of apology, saying they "recanted and repudiated" their connection...
|
|
|