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I take a very dim view of people who ridicule other peoples beliefs.

The fellow who founded your wife's religion did a lot more than RIDICULE other peoples beliefs.

I have never talked to a Mormon who tried to trick me into joining their church because I could be bad and still go to heaven.

Oh??

Just WHAT are you implying here?

You have to be dead at least a year for Mormon Temple Proxy work.
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Obama’s Mom died in 1995...

The dead dunking was done in June 2008

It was me that brought up your wife. Do you care to answer my question?

If her Church is so wonderful and important to your wife and she is such a wonderful person who believes it hook line and sinker, then it must be very disappointing to her that you are not sealed in the Holy Temple of God for Eternity and neither are any children you may have. It must cause her great distress. Why don't you join?

As you said, it doesn't really matter what one believes as long as you are loving good and kind. You should join, really, if it doesn't matter. Why would you decline something that would make your wife so happy?

then asked how the Mormon church plans to uncover non-existent records of most of these peoples & people groups?
Seances?
Ouija boards?
Magic 8 balls?
Pet rocks like Smith had?
Extensive searches worldwide for more hidden gold plates?
Mass manufacturing of urims & thummims?

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I don't know how they expect to do it, I don't know that they can. I do know that with God all things are possible.

You are correct my wife is a Mormon. I have never known a better person than her. She believes it hook line and sinker and lives it. If we were all as good as her the world would be a lot better place.

In ancient days they did use a Urim & Thunmum. I don't know how they will do the works. On Easter morning the Apostles recorded that they saw Saints that had died in Christ walking around the city resurrected. Maybe in the Millennium those saints will walk with the earth bound Mormons and tell them their name. I don't know, and because I don't know the last thing I will do is make fun of good God fearing people.

I take a very dim view of people who ridicule other peoples beliefs. To a Hindu mine probably seem pretty weird. The point is these people think what they believe is good and brings them closer to God.

I kind of like their idea that everybody will get a fair shot at accepting The Lord Jesus Christ. They actually teach that if everybody doesn’t get this chance then nobody will be able to have the benefit of it.

JAKraig, I just posted this on the "twin thread":

"ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. (Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)

Joseph Smith said "ALL." Is the Lds church committed to that? All?
That means all pre-Gutenberg people.
That means all "dark ages" people.
That means all primitive and ancient tribal campfire clans.
ALL. Everybody. Mandated by Smith for EVERY spirit!

I then asked how the Mormon church plans to uncover non-existent records of most of these peoples & people groups?
Seances?
Ouija boards?
Magic 8 balls?
Pet rocks like Smith had?
Extensive searches worldwide for more hidden gold plates?
Mass manufacturing of urims & thummims?

Bottom line, this peddling false hope when we're talking about 98-99% of the coveted records of which Mormons seek having been lost, destroyed or never even existed?

So, tell us, JAKraig, how is that "fair" -- to NOT have a chance at accepting a gospel version just because the...
(a) record-keepers either failed in their mission;
(b) or the record-finders failed in their mission;
(c) or, as in most cases, NO SUCH RECORD of your earthly life ever existed on earth!

You seem to know an awful lot about Mormonism, and if I recall, your wife is Mormon.

Why don’t you join? I’s seriously asking....what is the reason you don’t just go ahead and become baptized a member of the LDS Church if it really makes no difference?

If he keeps just one person from getting caught up in it, he has done a great service.

Not only do I believe he has kept some here on FR from getting caught up in the web of lies, he has helped at least two LDS freepers see the inanity of Mormonism and leave.

Thanks Colo for all your time and efforts in exposing Mormonism.

Barry is a mormon...

his Momma was dead dunked June 2008 and sealed to him...

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Actually if his mama’s work were done and Obama was a Temple going Mormon he could have had that work done. Since he is not Mormon it could not have been done. You have to be dead at least a year for Mormon Temple Proxy work.

double dunk placemark

3) It negates Hebrews 9:27 “For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement” — thereby, creating a false sense of security for earthly man: “Oh, I can repent AFTER I die”

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I don’t think they try to negate anything. Catholics teach that if they hadn’t baptized me when I was born and then I died before baptism that I would have been condemned to Hell. It makes no difference that it were through no fault of my own.

I don’t believe that, it doesn’t mean that I have a problem with Catholics believing it. It doesn’t effect me no matter what they do.

I have never talked to a Mormon who tried to trick me into joining their church because I could be bad and still go to heaven. They teach just the opposite.

They do teach that it will take a long time to do their research, they say that the reason for the Millennium is so that they can do this research.

I kind of like their idea that everybody will get a fair shot at accepting The Lord Jesus Christ. They actually teach that if everybody doesn’t get this chance then nobody will be able to have the benefit of it.

Several of my Christian family members were dead dunked ...

and sealings right up to me were involved...

How ghoulish and evil...

A violation of our 1st Amendment right to freedom of religion...

At one time i could find out if they were

Now they dont allowed non-mormons to have access to the info about their own families...

They keep their unGodly practices secret...

But there is one thing that came out of all the dead dunking to pad the membership rolls...

We got ourself tour forst mpormon president...

Barry is a mormon...

his Momma was dead dunked June 2008 and sealed to him...

So they have a forever mormon family..

Since we already have a mormon president...

Romney doesnt have to run now...

All religions are not equal.

There are only two paths to a perfect Holy God. The first is to never sin, and nobody does that. The second is to be forgiven through the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross.

Mormons have twisted that redemptive message into a bizarre, salvation through works, baptism and acceptance of Joseph Smith theology.

Colofornian does a service by pointing out some of the looney beliefs and practices of the false Mormon religion. If he keeps just one person from getting caught up in it, he has done a great service.

When my Methodist minister gave me the good news of the Gospel he prayed with me and told me how fortunate that I was that he had saved me. Most evangelist are taught to save the world, that is that they dedicate their lives to. They and we all know that there is only one Savior of the world, the saviors on Mt Zion is flowery talk. The Mormons, at least the ones I know, don’t confuse themselves with The Savior.

As far as wasting their good time, who cares, it’s their time they are wasting. It doesn’t seem to be any of my business what they spend it on as long as they leave me alone.

I know Mormons, most of the ones I have met only have the most serious reverence for THE Savior. Personally I don’t care if they do think of themselves as saviors it has no effect on me. I say let them alone.

They like the rest of us will face God some day and He can judge them and their actions. It fortunately isn’t my job to do that.

As I look at your quotes I can see that they do this for totally unselfish reasons, all the more reason to leave it alone.

Please explain what is the harm here and why this is an issue?

In addition to what I just said in the last post, here's additional considerations:

(3) It negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement" -- thereby, creating a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"

(4) Mormons are able to convince prospects that theirs is a "kindler, gentler Christianity" by not condemning anybody to hell and offering all -- including those before Christ -- a "fair chance" to receive their version of the gospel after death.

What they don't tell their prospects is that the vast majority of Dark Ages & before will never have their records found. (So how can the Lds church turn around and say this is MANDATED for EVERY spirit before they can be judged? Joseph Smith taught that "ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. --Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)

(5) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone start the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248)

Talk about the occultic Macabre -- more direct involvement in the affairs of the dead.

So, just what is the problem?

Good question. Here's a quote from a sidebar article from the Trib I just posted -- WhoIsHelenRadkeyAndWhyIsSheOutToGetTheLDSChurch? :

Mormons believe they have a spiritual mandate to offer the faith to those throughout human history who didn't have a chance to embrace it while they were alive.

Well, let's look at "what's wrong" over a few posts:

CONCERN #1:

It leads to billions of Lds man-hours being obsessed with the dead. I think we should be consumed with the living -- not the dead.

CONCERN #2:

It leads Mormons into thinking of themselves as "saviors" of the world, when in reality, we only have One, Jesus Christ, whose birth we celebrate this month. (He doesn't need false competitors):
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).

(If you don't think Lds deem themselves as "saviors," then you've haven't been in touch with what their revered "prophets" have said through the years:

...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).

"... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)

"We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)

So, just what is the problem?

I'm not catholic, I was born in a catholic hospital and was baptized by a priest immediately after being born, everybody born in that hospital was. What difference does it make. I have no desire to be baptized Catholic but it didn't hurt anything. I didn't die getting baptized, they just sprinkled a little water on me, said a few words and I went on with life. In their eyes they were doing me a big favor. In my eyes it is meaningless.

For people who are not Mormon what difference does it make if someone else gets baptized in their name decades after their death? If you don't believe the religion what difference does it make. If you are a Mormon and believe it is a good thing then it is a selfless sacrifice of time and effort just like the Catholic baptism at birth. More power to them. It isn't like they go to the grave site and put some marker up or something, they do it in their Temples where you can't even go unless you are a member of their church.

Please explain what is the harm here and why this is an issue?

What a great todo about nothing.

Please see the Salt Lake Tribune link for additional sidebars about the Lds practice of necro-baptism -- baptizing dead people.

From the article, quoting a Jewish genealogist: The continuing problem with Jewish records appearing in the LDS collection has convinced Mokotoff that LDS officials had no intention of honoring their 1995 accord. "They could do things today and they are not doing it," he says. "The church knows who the culprits are. They say it's because of overzealous Mormons, but there has been no reprimand of overzealous Mormons."

[This is kind of like how the Lds leaders in 1890 said they were "retiring" plural unions, but then continued to solemnize a few hundred more for the next 20 years -- secretly -- but with general authority approval (& often in Mexico). "Overzealous" Mormons who believed in "the principle" as it was called, added wives and weren't reprimanded until a few apostles were about 16-17 years AFTER the polygamy manifesto. It took the Senate Reed Smoot hearings & other evidence coming back to Washington D.C. that Lds were secretly continuing polygamy for a final u-turn to begin about 100 years ago.]

From the article: On Oct. 26 this year, Radkey received a letter from the library, threatening to ban her permanently from the premises if she continued to use other people's terminals.

From the article: "On this, I am squarely in the church's camp," Remington says. "As for 'policing' the names submitted for proxy baptism, my understanding is that it is impractical to do so. ... It is unreasonable, in my opinion, to expect submissions for proxy baptism to be 'policed' for strict conformance to LDS rules for such submissions."

How funny. This ex-Prez of Utah Genealogical Society believes Radkey should follow library resource rules, but doesn't think the Mormon church should enforce proxy baptism submission rules.