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Posts by RaisingCain

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  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 12:38:58 PM PDT · 51 of 63
    RaisingCain to Lx

    “2) If you think voting for zero will help the GOP to nominate true conservatives, you’re wrong and are merely trolling.”

    I don’t think that, and I would appreciate it if you stopped lying about my arguments and motivations. If you want to believe that Mormonism is comparable to Christianity, that’s fine. If you want to make Romney out to be a conservative, that’s fine. But don’t pretend that my disagreement on that means I am supporting Obama.

    “Something tells me you don’t read the Bible but it’s a convenient way to bash Romney.”

    Something tells me you don’t read the Bible, but it is a convenient way to praise Romney, which is why people keep comparing Mormonism to Christianity and claiming it is in fact Christian.

    “3) Another term for zero is going to impact more than the evangelicals, after what he’s manage to do in only four years, the thought of him having another term is horrible.”

    To be honest, the thought of 4 years, or possibly even 8 years, of “conservatives” fawning over Romney and proclaiming that Mormonism is Christian is downright horrible.

    “1) Something tells me you don’t have conservative principles anyway.”

    Tell that to yourself and Romney who is running on the Obama-lite platform. He even boasted during the primaries he was going to cut taxes on the “1 percent,” but now is fighting over Obama about who is more moderate and progressive. Romney’s central argument is that he likes big government but thinks he can do it more efficiently with the same “free-market” principles that allegedly inspired RomneyCare.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 12:35:24 PM PDT · 49 of 63
    RaisingCain to faithhopecharity

    “Even if your allegations were true,”

    My allegations are true and were a common point of discussion on this forum up until shortly after the nomination. But, out of sight, out of mind.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 12:35:10 PM PDT · 48 of 63
    RaisingCain to Bryanw92

    “Offensive?? We live in a nation where people are too easily offended. The word has no meaning anymore since it now means little more than “I disagree with you””

    Take it up with God, who promises to send false prophets and the devil to burn eternally in the lake of fire, on whether or not comparing Mormonism, Baha’i, Scientology and other religious cults to Christianity is offensive or not. I don’t think God will be doing that because He wasn’t offended.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 10:56:30 AM PDT · 28 of 63
    RaisingCain to Lx

    “So, to clarify, you’re voting for zero?”

    So, to clarify, I’m not voting for Zero, and I am not endorsing Mormonism as just another Christian denomination, nor pretending that Romney is something that he is not. To make it very clear: I am not embracing self-delusion and unprincipled betrayals of the Bible to benefit a mere political cause for a mere typical politician. Now, spam and flame away.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 10:31:23 AM PDT · 19 of 63
    RaisingCain to Bryanw92

    “Mormons may be misguided Christians (or not. Some would also say that Catholics are misguided, while others would say that Protestants are misguided. Who on Earth really knows for sure.). “

    The Bible knows for sure. The Bible does not teach that there are three seperate gods, that God the father (whom they call Elohim, Jehovah is Jesus) is not omniscient and was once a mortal man, that salvation is for all, but celestial Godhood is for the Mormon. The Catholics, for all their problems, do not make such absurd claims. You might as well compare the Catholics to the Baha’i, who claim their dead prophet was the second coming of Jesus Christ. It’s apples and oranges, and it is extraordinarily offensive to put groups like the Mormons, or Baha’i, or Scientologists on par with biblical Christianity, like mere “denominations” in something that is not very different at all.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 10:30:58 AM PDT · 18 of 63
    RaisingCain to fightin kentuckian

    “The question should be “Can an Evangelical Christian vote for a Muslim?” BINGO! Beat me to it. Actually they did vote for a muslim in 08 and now they’re regretting it. Now do they vote for the Christian or the Mohamadean.”

    Mormonism is NOT Christian, and it is because of that false assertion by Romney supporters that I have long since abandoned the idea that the GOP is in any way superior to the DNC. The Bible is unchanging on this issue, but men are changing all the time.

  • Can An Evangelical Christian Vote for a Mormon?

    11/03/2012 10:29:02 AM PDT · 17 of 63
    RaisingCain to re_tail20

    The great myth though is that Romney is a moral man with biblical values. Not only does Mormonism lack Biblical values, but so does Mitt Romney. The GOP and “conservatives” went into tribal mode after the nomination and conveniently forgot all the lies Romney said to get the nomination in the first place. They’ve spent the last month or so deifying him into something he clearly is not. It’s Big Lie politics, repeated over and over again, until everyone seems to believe it.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/31/2012 6:37:17 PM PDT · 235 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “You are incorrect. According to the Catholic faith, the Pope speaks and acts infallibly. I don’t have a problem with Catholics. In fact, if I weren’t a Mormon, I would have to be a Catholic due to the Priesthood.”

    The Pope, so far as I know, does not lie about Catholic doctrine the way that the Mormon Living Prophet lies about Mormonism depending on the audience. For example, on whether or not God was once a man:

    “Don Lattin (San Francisco Chronicle religion editor, interviewing Gordon B. Hinckley, April 13, 1997, p 3/Z1): “There are some significant differences in your beliefs [from other Christian churches]. For instance, don’t Mormons believe that God was once a man?”
    Hinckley: “I wouldn’t say that. There was a little couplet coined, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” Now that’s more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.”

    Quoted in Time Magazine, Aug 4, 1997: “On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, [Hinckley] sounded uncertain, `I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it.’”

    However, Joseph Smith called the doctrine of God once being a man the first principle of the Mormon gospel:

    “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God........yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible....” (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17. This has also been reprinted in various manuals and church magazines over the years. Truman Madsen, in his popular tapes “Joseph Smith the Prophet” said the church has published this sermon more than any other.)

    President Kimball said it is in numerous scriptures:

    “You and I—what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: ‘As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.’” (President Spencer W. Kimball in “Our Great Potential” from the April 1977 Priesthood Session of General Conference)

    In 1997, the official Priesthood and Relief Society manual contained the following;:

    “President Brigham Young taught ... that God the Father was once a man on another planet who ‘passed the ordeals we are now passing through’” ... “The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this church.” (”The Teachings of Brigham Young,” 1997, pages 29,34, )

    Your Prophet would later lie to Mormons claiming he was “misquoted.”

    A compilation of lies told by your prophet can be found here:

    Also, the Pope, so far as I know, has never given false prophecy, insomuch he does not claim to be a mouthpiece of God. Though, of course, I do disagree with Catholic theology where they contradict the Bible. At least they don’t claim the Bible is wrong, condemn all of the Apostles, distort Jesus Christ, and claim that there are many gods when scripture only teaches one! Comparing Catholicism to Mormonism is like comparing Catholicism to Scientology.

    As for the Priesthood, that just demonstrates how little you know the scripture and how much you prefer ritual over spiritual! If I were a Mormon, I’d convert to Christianity since we are all made Kings and Priests in the sight of God through faith in Him. No need to learn any secret handshakes, secret names, tithe 10 percent, swear obedience to men, obey the law perfectly, “sustain” fallible men who are liars, or govern my life based on the burning of my bosom without the benefit of evidence! I need never fear failing my temple recommendation, or what other men think, since there are no special classes in the body of Christ, no levels of priesthood, only Christ our High Priest and the entire body of Christians being one with Him.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/31/2012 12:35:32 PM PDT · 229 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “I could dig up/make up a pile of dirt about the Catholic Church and every Protestant Church known to man or beast but why would I want to?”

    You probably wouldn’t want to since, generally, Protestant and Catholic leaders don’t claim to be Apostles or Prophets who speak directly for God and are often, provably, wrong. There are some Charismatics though who claim to be prophets, like Benny Hinn, but the second problem is that since I am not a Mormon I don’t really respect any leader when they contradict the Bible.

    “So why do you continue to push the notion that what the anti Mormons on this site are doing is A-OK?”

    Because you continue to claim that Mormonism is Christian and many other things that it is provably not, and our evidence is in the LDS teachings itself and the firm words of the Bible, not mere opinion or rambling. We are not relativists who embrace lies just to feel good and get along, and so far you have not addressed a single thing anyone has written. Can you please reply to my post on Joseph Smith’s false prophecy of the Mormons building New Jerusalem “in this generation,” which not only did not happen but contradicts the plain words of the Bible? If you won’t respond to it, then why respond to anything at all? Why make these claims when you have no evidence to provide? Why dispute what your own prophets and leaders have declared themselves? Do you “sustain” you Apostle when he said that it is wrong to consider Jesus a personal savior to be prayed to? I sustain the Apostle Paul. I sustain Jesus Christ. You can sustain the LDS, but I shall stick to the good word of the Bible.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/30/2012 10:26:04 PM PDT · 222 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “Oh, this is so priceless. I got banned for almost a year (for being a Mormon) and what has changed? Not much. Anti MormonISM folk are still condemning to hell everyone who don’t/doesn’t believe exactly as they believe. Good thing Jesus Christ is our Judge. Jesus is so wonderful; He suffered and died for me, too - a Mormon.”

    You continue to make these assertions contradicting your own prophets and apostles, and then cry ‘hate!’ and ‘bigotry!’ to justify them. Perhaps you were banned for your dishonesty in pushing your religion. I don’t know who you think you are fooling, but I suspect no one here is getting snookered after reading the “eeeevil” posts of those you deride as mere haters. After all, they’re only quoting YOUR leaders.


    10/28/2012 9:01:38 PM PDT · 49 of 175
    RaisingCain to RummyChick

    Pfffft, I eat category one hurricanes for breakfast. Surfing in Category 5 winds is my idea of a mellow time. When I do pushups, I’m actually pushing the Earth down.

  • But Mitt Romney's a Mormon! (Fear not)

    10/27/2012 9:59:48 PM PDT · 249 of 250
    RaisingCain to BlueMoose

    “A well-known Bible-code researcher has bad news for Barack Obama, as he claims hidden texts in the Holy Bible indicate Mitt Romney will be America’s next president.

    Moshe Aharon Shak, an orthodox Jew and author of “Bible Codes Breakthrough” has produced a series of videos on YouTube with his modern analysis of Scripture.

    THis is well known.”

    It’s Kabbalist nonsense. They also manage to find ways to get the Bible to deny itself. These people claim to be Orthodox Jews, but they fill their heads with mystical new-agey nonsense that they “discover” by staring at a Jewish word for so long that it transforms into a paragraph about how mankind is really god. Check out the Zohar, the forgery that started the whole Kabbalah nonsense back in the middle ages. You might as well put your faith in astrology and put it on the level of scripture.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 9:20:39 PM PDT · 171 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “The nauseating stuff posted about Mormons really needs to stop, especially since Billy Graham ministry has removed Mormons from their list of cults.”

    The Bible hasn’t!

    Gal 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t worry about what Billy Graham thinks.

    Is Old Joey Smith a real prophet of God? Well, let’s look at one example and think it over:

    “Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house... 31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed.” (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.)

    Number one, ole Joey Smith was killed a long time ago from the chain reaction he caused when he had the Nauvoo Expositor burned for condemning him for his systematic abuse of women.

    All the other Mormons of that generation have also been dead for a very long time.

    No temple in Missouri dedicated by Joey Smith where God dwells.

    On top of that, it contradicts the Bible. Here is the real New Jerusalem coming down from heaven, not being built by you and your buddies:

    Rev 21:1-2 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Oh, it’s also about three hundred and seventy five miles high, and loaded with gold and jewels, and the temple is God Himself. I know the Mormons are rich, but, c’mon!

    Rev 21:16-22 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. (17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. (18) And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. (19) And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; (20) The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. (21) And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. (22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 9:20:24 PM PDT · 170 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “Excuse me. I am a Mormon and I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is my Savior who suffered and died for me ME. Please stop condemning me to hell; it is above your pay grade. Jesus Christ is my Judge.”

    Okay! So does this mean you condemn the LDS’s claim to being the “restored” Gospel that is the only true church and that the Christian church is the whore of Babylon?

    “This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165

    “In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7

    “My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.”

    “I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them;...” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20

    “What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270

    “...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.” - Prophet Joseph Smith , The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60

    “For centuries men gathered and argued concerning the nature of Deity. Constantine assembled scholars of various factions at Nicaea in the year 325. After two months of bitter debate, they compromised on a definition which for generations has been the doctrinal statement among Christians concerning the Godhead.”

    “I invite you to read that definition and compare it with the statement of the boy Joseph. He simply says that God stood before him and spoke to him. Joseph could see Him and could hear Him. He was in form like a man, a being of substance. Beside Him was the resurrected Lord, a separate being, whom He introduced as His Beloved Son and with whom Joseph also spoke.”

    “I submit that in the short time of that remarkable vision Joseph learned more concerning Deity than all of the scholars and clerics of the past.”

    “This knowledge of Deity, hidden from the world for centuries, was the first and great thing which God revealed to His chosen servant. And upon the reality and truth of this vision rests the validity of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Great Things Which God Has Revealed” Spring Church Confernece 2005

    “Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent” - Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

    “And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.” - Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11

    “After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon” - Apostle George Q. Cannon said, Gospel Truth, p.324

    “When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:73

    “With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199

    “The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

    “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176

    “Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.” - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:89

    “The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called” - Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196

    “But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 18:172

    “ a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167

    “Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.” - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127

    “What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.” - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

    “What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.” - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

    “Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.” (p. 266). “For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282

    “Instead of having apostles, prophets, and other inspired men in the church now, receiving visions, dreams, revelations, ministry of angels and prophesies for the calling of officers, and for the government of the church—they have a wicked, corrupt, uninspired pope, or uninspired archbishops, bishops, clergymen, etc., who have a great variety of corrupt forms of godliness, but utterly deny the gift of revelation, and every other miraculous power which always characterized Christ’s Church.”

    “These manmade, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, “Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon,” page 20

    “...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was.” - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

    “Must we, under the broad folds of the American Constitution, be compelled to bow down to the narrow contracted notions of Apostate Christianity? Must we shut up our consciences in a nut shell, and be compelled to submit to the bigoted notions, and whims, and customs of the dark ages of popery, transferred to us through the superstitious of our fathers? Must we be slaves to custom and render homage to the soul-destroying, sickening influences of modern Christianity? No!” - Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Vol.1, No.7, p.111

    “And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foudation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...” - Supposedly Jesus Christ Himself, Doctrine and Covenants 1:30

    Salvation not Through Jesus Christ, but Joseph Smith?

    “If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by the Prophet Joseph Smith; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him. “ - 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142, Apostle George Q. Cannon quoted

    “Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision. ... Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which he spoke is true. This is the hinge on which turns the gate that leads to the path of salvation and eternal life.” - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign Mag., Nov. 1998, pp.70-71

    [There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

    “No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91

    “He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312

    “I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.” - Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

    “It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus. Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk.” - Prophet Brigham Young, History of the Church, Vol. 7, p.40-41

    Islam Better than Chistianity?

    “The Greek and Roman Churches, which have been called Christian, and which take the name of Christians as a cloak, have worshipped innumerable idols. On this account, on the simple subject of the Deity and His worship, if nothing more, I should rather incline, of the two, after all my early traditions, education, and prejudices, to the side of Mahomet, for on this point he is on the side of truth, and the Christian world on the side of idolatry and heathenism.” - Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.38

    “..instead of saying that Mahometanism prevailed against Christianity, and that Christianity was in danger of being done away by its prevalence, we would rather say, that where Mahometanism prevailed, it taught and established one truth at least, viz., the true and living God, and so far as this went, it did preserve people from worshipping idols. And had the crescent waved on the tower of London, or on the church of St. Paul, instead of the cross, and had the Mahometan religion been enforced instead of the Roman religion that was enforced for a series of generations, and had tradition riveted what the sword enforced, then that nation and the surrounding nations would have been worshippers of one true God instead of idols; they would have recognized it in theory at least, whether they would have worshipped Him in spirit and in truth or not. But now [Christians] do not recognize Him in theory, for they acknowledge as their god an imaginary being without body, parts, or passions.” - Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.39

    “Now, if we take Mahometanism during those dark ages, and the corruptions that are so universally prevalent over the earth, and the idolatrous systems of religion, falsely called Christianity, and weigh them in a balance; with all my education in favor of Christian nations and Christian powers, and Christian institutions, so called, with all my prejudices of early youth, and habits of thought and reading, my rational faculties would compel me to admit that the Mahometan history and Mahometan doctrine was a standard raised against the most corrupt and abominable idolatry that over perverted our earth, found in the creeds and worship of Christians, falsely so named.” - Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.40

    “Though Mahometan institutions are corrupt enough, and need reforming by the Gospel, I am inclined to think, upon the whole, leaving out the corruptions of men in high places among them, that they have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations; and in many localities there have been high standards of morals. So far as that one point is concerned, of worshipping the one true God under the name of Mahometanism, together with many moral precepts, and in war only acting on the defensive, I think they have exceeded in righteousness and truthfulness of religion, the idolatrous and corrupt church that has borne the name of Christianity.” - Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.41

    Must suck to be a Mormon and always having to deal with your own “church” leaders contradicting stuff you say!

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 9:20:15 PM PDT · 169 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “The nauseating stuff posted about Mormons really needs to stop, especially since Billy Graham ministry has removed Mormons from their list of cults. I was banned for about a year and now I see that nothing has changed. The anti Mormons never let up. It’s like they are obsessed.

    Please note: I am a Mormon; Jesus Christ is my Savior and Best Friend; Jesus suffered and died to save me from my sins and I love Him with all my heart. But of course my heartfelt testimony is not good enough for the anti MormonISM gang. Oh, well, thank Goodness my Judge is Jesus Christ.”

    Really?? Tsk tsk tsk! Your Apostle says you’re a self-righteous rebel warring against the true practices of your church! Observe:

    “Concerning the concept of a personal relationship with Christ, the late LDS Apostle, Bruce McConkie made the following infamous speech (note that McConkie even goes as far as denying the pattern of praying through the Son):

    “Some (”holier-than- thou” students) begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed. In this conception a current and unwise book, which advocates gaining a special relationship with Jesus, contains this sentence - quote: “Because the Saviour is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his son. “ Unquote. This is plain sectarian nonsense. Our prayers are addressed to the Father, and to him only. They do not go through Christ...You have never heard the First Presidency or the Twelve...advocate this excessive zeal that calls for gaining a so called special and personal relationship with Christ...never, never at any time have they taught or endorsed the inordinate and intemperate zeal that encourages endless, sometimes day-long prayers, in order to gain a personal relationship with the Saviour...I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer’s system to make people feel they are special friends of Jesus when in fact they are not following the normal and usual pattern of worship found in the true Church.” (Bruce McConkie, Speech at BYU on March 2 1982).

    McConkie also stated:

    “We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well about what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense - the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to Him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God first, the Creator.” (Ibid.).

    McConkie also said the following words in his book Mormon Doctrine:

    “Prayers of the saints are expected to conform to a prescribed standard of divine excellence...They are to be addressed to the Father; should always be made in the name of Jesus Christ; ...” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 581).

    In the same book, under the subject heading of “Prayer Books”, and how they relate to some Christian traditions, McConkie has the following to say:

    “As an indication of how far removed most of them [the churches] are from the true form of prayer is the fact that many of them are not made in the name of Christ, while others are addressed directly to Christ or the Holy Ghost rather than to the Father.”

    Rest at link:

    By the way, most of the nauseating stuff posted about Mormonism... IS LDS TEACHING! God forbid we talk about the dogma of the LDS. Some Gospel they have that must remain secret!

    Mar 4:21-23 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? (22) For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. (23) If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 9:16:08 PM PDT · 168 of 255
    RaisingCain to Saundra Duffy

    “Holy cow! You are being disrespectful of the Rev. Billy Graham, the greatest Preacher since Paul of Tarsus. Billy Graham would never play politics. His whole life is above reproach. I have always loved Billy Graham. Used to watch his crusades on TV. He is one of my heroes!”

    We’re not Mormons! So it doesn’t make a difference to us what some guy says. We don’t sustain fallible men.

  • Which candidate looks deranged, the other a man of reason?

    10/26/2012 8:44:32 PM PDT · 37 of 37
    RaisingCain to submarinerswife

    “No you don’t. You sold it to Obama and your friends at DU.”

    I guess we’ll see how it all turns out in the end, I suppose. Once the election is over and the group think gives way to reality, we’ll see which one of us sold our souls to Obama, and the ideology and incompetence that rules him and Mitt Romney both.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 12:09:15 AM PDT · 89 of 255
    RaisingCain to KittenClaws

    “I’m not a Mormon and I am not a bigot.
    In fact, I don’t care how the Mormon faith differs from my own because my vote is for this COUNTRY.

    Regardless of Romney’s religion, he loves this country. That can not be said of obama.

    Vote as your own bigotry leads you. Your efforts to lead me to bigotry and hatred are in vain.”

    Okay, so does this mean you’re going to stop selling Mormonism? My God is more important to me than my country, so every time you do it, I’m going to respond, as will lots of folks around here.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 12:09:06 AM PDT · 88 of 255
    RaisingCain to KittenClaws

    “You know what?

    All of you who are know all be all about faith and religion,

    All of you who are not bigots, but claim everyone else is,

    All of you who think you’ll be in heaven but those who profess the “wrong” religion are condemned to hell,

    All of those who think their religious views are the end all be all of faith and country...

    Bite me.”

    Jesus does not bite, but He does cast people into hell though.

    Mat 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Those who preach a false Gospel are certainly on that list as well:

    Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

  • Obama Supporters Rally Around Anti-Mormonism

    10/26/2012 12:08:41 AM PDT · 87 of 255
    RaisingCain to KittenClaws

    And their factual evidence is..............?”

    There’s about 40,000 threads on Mormonism that have been posted on this forum over the past year. How you missed them is beyond me. The evidence is in the direct quotes from their “scripture” and leaders.