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False witness anyone? Ninth commandment anyone?

I do not disagree at all that it is ALWAYS a cause for rejoicing when anyone either comes to saving faith in Christ or leaves a wanton lifestyle to return to living in holiness after an initial decision to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. I DO disagree that it is only the Roman Catholic Church that can be that place of homecoming. For many people such as myself, it was when I read God's word and recognized the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ that God lead me OUT of that religion and into a church where the truth of the Gospel was celebrated and where Christian living was encouraged out of gratitude for God's grace and not as a means to gain His grace. Thank you again for giving me a chance to retell my testimony.

Yes, that is similar to my testimony. After hearing for 27 years, (12 years Catholic parochial school), how salvation was mostly works, ( baptism, confession, communion, mandatory Mass, Monstrance adoration, praying to Mary/Saints, offering up discomfort for those in purgatory, praying the rosary as well as good works) Jesus was rather distant and could be approached through Mary and her special relationship to Jesus.

God in His mercy took my blinders off and let me see the Saving Gospel of Grace, through Faith in Christ, where no one can boast of meritorous works to attain salvation. We only boast of Christ and His work on our behalf! Jesus came to save SINNERS, not the righteous! PRAISE to His Wonderful Name! The Roman system substitutes Trust in Jesus with sacramentalism to gather enough "grace" to help one attain salvation.

And the poor Orthodox, they dont get no respect from Rome either.

did someone throw a bucket of water on the thief on the cross for baptism?

I am sure it's just an amazing coincidence ;)

After all horses can probably swim for a mile or so pulling a chariot and soldiers. It was the first primitive battleship.

"So God has a finite number of good works or requirements you must complete?"

I'm sure He does that is different for each of us, but there is no way for any of us to know how many it is.

You don't see a contradiction in Rom 4:3

“Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

My Salvation certainly isn't based on anything that will fit on a bumper sticker if that is what you are implying. There are a number of key requirements and signs, but you cannot achieve it without Grace, Faith, and Love and cannot find it where good works are not evident.

So God has a finite number of good works or requirements you must complete?

So, if you miss the alotted requirement of works by one, your off to hell? Two more good works and you would have been ok?

So your salvation is based on faith in Jesus and loving others with your good works, as well as baptism, confession, communion and mandatory sunday mass.

And sadder still is that Prots will believe anything that remotely casts the Catholic Church in a bad light, so that they can feel better about their decision not to be Catholic.

This prot investigated what the Scriptures plainly teach and believed in the Saviour by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone.

The saddest thing i have found is the once Gospel proclaiming church at Rome has become apostate and no longer preaches the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ, but a faith AND Works path to heaven, which is no path at all.

Too bad most Catholics don’t have a clue about church history.

Both the bread and the cup are necessary parts of the communion service as commanded by Christ.

Odd that Rome, who wants to take John 6:55 literally, departs from other literal commands.

Both the bread and the cup are necessary parts of the communion service as commanded by Christ.

Odd that Rome, who wants to take John 6:55 literally, departs from other literal commands.

Pray for the Holy Church founded by Jesus Christ, ONLY WHO WANTS TO BE PART OF THIS CHURCH WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. For He, Jesus Christ and His Church is the Church founded on earth that is represented by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI so far. Does not advance for the world to want to undo this determination, ALL THE CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE, WILL FALL.

So is this supposed "seer" saying only those formal members of the RC church will be saved, see heaven, "SURVIVE FOREVER"?

Isnt that against formal Roman teaching where all religions have a chance at heaven?

Pray for the Holy Church founded by Jesus Christ, ONLY WHO WANTS TO BE PART OF THIS CHURCH WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. For He, Jesus Christ and His Church is the Church founded on earth that is represented by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI so far. Does not advance for the world to want to undo this determination, ALL THE CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE, WILL FALL.

So is this supposed "seer" saying only those formal members of the RC church will be saved, see heaven, "SURVIVE FOREVER"?

Isnt that against formal Roman teaching where all religions have a chance at heaven?

I Thank My God that someone in my life showed me the saving Gospel of Grace from the scriptures and that God removed the scales from my eyes and I believed.

I was able to leave the Roman system, By Grace Alone, Through Faith Alone, in Christ Alone.

Pray, come to believe in the fullness of Truth, do All that Jesus commands you. The Eucharist is true, Sacramental Confession to a priest is God’s way, His plan for the forgiveness of our mortal sins and accept Mary’s help. You can pray to her, it would make Our Lord very happy. Three things to accept, they are “grace filled”, all to your benefit.

Believing in the "fullness of the Truth" means, conversion to Mary? the Saints, the Church?

We believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, sent to pay the penalty for our sin. Who suffered, died and was raised on the third day?

Whats the point? We already have Jesus. That is the main point of Catholicism, correct?

So only priests can forgive sin? Only priests can transform the bread and wine into Christ? Bummer

"To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already."

Where Augustine agrees with scripture, that works for me too!

"Which of the 30,000 plus Protestant sects is Our Lord going to reveal to the world is the one?"

The ones who believe "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Augustine (354-430): "They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" For He had said to them, "Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto eternal life." "What shall we do?" they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent."

This is then to eat the meat, not that which perisheth, but that which endureth unto eternal life. To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already. NPNF1: Vol. VII, Tractates on John, Tractate 25, §12.

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Since only priests can transform the bread and wine, what happens to those with no access to a priest?

When Arianism engulfed the church, what happend to those who could only get communion from Arian priests?

In John 6 Jesus says that anyone that eats of Him should live forever. Then why do people who take communion in the Catholic church die?

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Or do ALL Catholics who take communion go to heaven? This verse indicates that there is nothing else required.

Do Catholics who eat the host but are not given the wine disqualifed? Why not? The verse states flesh AND blood must be partaken.

Is that not what I said here: Faith alone is not sufficient as works are required to declare us righteous or justified.

No Faith is the only requirement. Think thief on the cross.

Good works are the proof of salvation, not the cause. Good works are the proof to others of salvation.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in[b] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

If by works, how much work is required? What is the cutoff? Why the need for the Cross?

So either James, writing under inspiration of holy spirit, contradicts Paul, who was also writing by inspiration of that same holy spirit, or...or as I believe, that they are in agreement and their words are being misunderstood.

So are James and Paul contradicting each other or is there another way to understand their words?

What is James Saying?

James is simply saying that if you ‘say' you are a Christian, then there had better be some appropriate works manifested or your faith is false. This sentiment is echoed in 1 John 2:4 which says, "If you say you have come to know Him, yet you do not keep His commandments, then the truth is not in you and you are a liar."

Apparently, there were people who were saying they were Christians, but were not manifesting any of the fruit of Christianity. Can this faith justify? Can the dead ‘faith' that someone has which produces no change in a person and no good works before men and God be a faith that justifies? Absolutely not. It is not merely enough to say you believe in Jesus. You must actually believe and trust in Him. If you actually do, then you will demonstrate that faith by a changed and godly life. If not, then your profession is of no more value than the same profession of demons: "We believe Jesus lived."

Notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.

Therefore, we are justified by faith. That is, we are made righteous in the eyes of God by faith as is amply demonstrated by Romans. However, that faith, if it is true, will result in deeds appropriate to salvation. After all, didn't God say in Eph. 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." http://carm.org/are-we-justified-faith-romans-or-works-james

John 3:14-21 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Yes, those who were rescued from the snakes did not have to EAT the snake, only to look and believe.

John 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Is Jesus a literal door? A literal shepherd of literal sheep?

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.

Jesus a literal Vine?

John 4:13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I will not be thirsty or have to come here to draw water.”

Why isnt there an eternal life water drinking sacrament? The women at the well took it literally.

"I curious as to why you don’t address the issue of Catholics making Mary equal to Christ...

Because your making the accusation doesn't make it any more true and in need of addressing than the last thousand times it has been refuted and demonstrated to not be Catholic doctrine.

I agree with Natural on this one. Mary is not equal with Jesus in Roman theology, it just looks that way from Roman prayer and practice.

She is not God, she is just the sinless Queen of heaven where all saving grace must flow through. She provides special protection from her Son's Justice against sinners because she softens His heart and He cannot deny her requests.

She hears prayers from all Catholics at the same time, makes infrequent visits to various back water places requesting special devotion to her, and on occasion can make the sun dance and turn rosary beads to Gold.

But she is definetely not equal to God or Jesus.

Faith alone is not sufficient as works are required to declare us righteous or justified.

And was that not the point of Paul's listing of those persons of faith AND works?

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

Eating His Flesh and drinking His blood (the Eucharist) -John 6:55- is a symbol, a metaphor for whoever believes (faith alone) in Christ -John 6:40-?

Yes, The reality is belief (Faith, Trust) in Christ's substitutionary atonement and resurrection is how we appropriate God's salvation.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Acts 16:30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.

Romans 4:3 “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

John 6:55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:55 is the metaphor.

I walked away from the RCC to Jesus!

Jesus saves, not the Roman church. By Grace alone, Through Faith alone, in Christ Alone!

As a Catholic...

Jesus opened Heaven by His death on the Cross but His suffering death does not cover all our sins in meaning we are saved...justified. Apologist Jimmy Akin states better than I can.

“Jesus died once and for all to pay a price sufficient to cover all the sins of our lives, but God doesn’t apply his forgiveness to us in a once-and-for-all manner. He forgives us as we repent. That’s why we continue to pray “Forgive us our trespasses,” because we regularly have new sins that we have repented of—some venial and some mortal, but all needing forgiveness. -—Excerpt from an article by Jimmy Akin, Catholic Insight, The Limits of Forgiveness.”

So the blood of Jesus only covers and pays for confessed sin.

The remaining payment for sin is withheld in until new sin is confessed to a priest and absolution and penance are complete?

So Catholics are judged on their state of unconfessed and not yet paid for sin AND the amount of good works one must perform to merit heaven. Correct?

John 6 - “66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Peter then and now recognizes that the real presence represents the way no matter why many walk away.

Wow, where do you see the real presence in "You have the WORDS of eternal life. We BELIEVE and KNOW that you are the Holy One of God.

And yet they were, in fact, denied. Just as today....

Don't see the relevance. There were no miracles authenticating any popes or nebulous tradition.

Are you contending that the Church has been completely without miracles since the death of St. John?

No, just that the magnitude and frequency had diminished greatly.

Why did Paul tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his ailment?

Clearly the miracles associated with the Apostles were extreme and undeniable, IE raising the dead, healing those crippled from birth, etc..

God heals today, mostly through prayer, not people.

Are “lying signs and wonders” not in your bible?

Also, the Apostles and more importantly their MESSAGE/SCRIPTURE was authenticated by God via the miracles they performed.

The Popes/Magesterium have no such authentication from God for their extra biblical tradition.

Yes, the Gospel is not get infant baptism, take communion, go to mass and be a good person.

It’s by Grace Alone, Through Faith Alone, In Christ Alone.

Egads! I heard rumors that Mitt stayed up way past midnight as a tween on several occasions!

Maybe we should vote for the communist?

After having read the initial article, I do not find the author convincing in the least.

Why didnt he join the Orthodox or Mormons who make the same claims of exclusive authority?

My Church in MA consists of 80% former RC’s and all have left for theological reasons.

Yes, Col 2:16, you are correct, Cor was a typo.

We “Do this in remembrance of me” regularly, usually monthly.

Cor 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

The pope decreed mortal sin for missing sunday mass, Not God, and this over 1000 years after the resurrection.

You are still a Catholic and will have to answer for the mortal sins of not attending Mass for 27 years at the moment of your death.

Cor 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

I am Catholic in the universal sense, just not Roman Catholic.

Sunday Mass is not part of the 10 commandments.

We have been redeemed from the Law.

I left the Catholic church 27 years ago, when a co-worker was kind enough to explain to me the Saving Gospel of Grace out of the book of Romans. Salvation by Grace alone, thru Faith alone, in Christ alone!

My conversion left me joyous, thankfull, tearfull and in Awe of the Great God of Mercy who had sacrificed His Son to save a wretch like me.

I was bursting at the seams, telling all who would listen about the Free Salvation in Christ.

Sharpton and Jackson are hardly real Christians. They just use the name as a front for gathering money and power.

Their Jesus is not the biblical one.

I wonder how much Holder kicked in for the $10K bounty?

What insults? We can’t talk honestly about our candidates flaws?

I have been called a mormon plant, a dead soul and various other insults by some on this forum. I have not insulted anyone.

As a tea party member and a conservative Christian I thought i could converse openly with other conservatives.

My goal is to get rid of Obama and his communist pals and restore the constitution.

I am not holding it against him. If God has forgiven him, he is forgiven.

I am just saying His baggage is HUGE! Again you are confusing voting for president and voting for a theocracy.

Tell me what you think being born again means. I already told you what i think it means.

I am a tea party member as well. Why demonize those who do not think Newt can win.

Are all those who hold their nose and vote Romney desperate, disgusting liars and self-righteous dead souls?

Give us a break. later

Sorry, but Newt is a confessed adulterer. That is common knowledge hardly a deciet. I have only listed facts!

I am a Born Again Christian, Reformed Baptist. Christ is my Savior thru Faith only and the only way to heaven given as a gift by God to fallen humanity.

Romney is clearly a polytheist, I believe mormanism is false and a cult. I dont believe he is trying to install a morman theocracy.

Newt is a recent Catholic convert who is as “liberal” as Romney but with LOTS more baggage.

Is Newt trying to install a Catholic theocracy? Certainly, that was the fear with JFK? There is plenty of historical Papal baggage to concoct a Roman Theocracy plot if you tried hard enough. Is that the reality with Newt? off course not.

I would vote for either Newt or Romney over Obama.

Who is accusing the brethren? Look, i want Obummer out as bad as you do, i just dont think Newt is the guy.

I would vote Ron Paul over either in a heart beat if he had a chance and modified his foriegn policy.