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Time to Fix the 14th Amendment of the Constitution

Posted on 12/20/2001 9:29:58 AM PST by texson66

The 14th Amendment states:

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Miscellaneous
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Since the illegal immigration from Mexico has to stop if we want to remain THE United States of America, I propose a tweak to the 14th amendment. To wit,

Section 1. Only persons born to citizens or naturalized citizens of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

The original version clearly was initially intended to help the population of the US grow. It is time to stop an influx of illegal immigrants, who come here pregnant, to have a US citizen on US soil so THEY can stay

What say ye, FReepers??

1 posted on 12/20/2001 9:29:58 AM PST by texson66
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To: texson66
I'm pretty sure the original was written and amended to protect the natural rights of everyone. This is consistant with the philosophical principles under which the Constitution was written in the first place.
2 posted on 12/20/2001 9:35:51 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: texson66
They should have made it similer to the Laws of Adoption of the Constitution of the Iroquois Nations

70. When the adoption of anyone shall have been confirmed by the Lords of the Nation, the Lords shall address the people of their nation and say: "Now you of our nation, be informed that such a person, such a family or such families have ceased forever to bear their birth nation's name and have buried it in the depths of the earth. Henceforth let no one of our nation ever mention the original name or nation of their birth. To do so will be to hasten the end of our peace.

3 posted on 12/20/2001 9:40:47 AM PST by Iwentsouth
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To: texson66
I say ye be wrong. If you're born here, you're a citizen - period.
4 posted on 12/20/2001 9:43:30 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: realpatriot71
I'm pretty sure the original was written and amended to protect the natural rights of everyone.

And I'm equally sure it wasn't.
It is nonsensical to write a constitution protecting the rights of criminals and foreigners visiting our country.
How did the original colonists treat the British and the Hessians?
Help me out here; how much constitutional due process did they get?

Let's get real here...

5 posted on 12/20/2001 9:44:31 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: realpatriot71
Is there any other nation which allows illegal immigrants to claim citizenship throught the birth of a son or daughter? I dont believe there is. We have to tighten up now!
6 posted on 12/20/2001 9:45:04 AM PST by texson66
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To: Iwentsouth

They should have made it similer to the Laws of Adoption of the Constitution of the Iroquois Nations

70. When the adoption of anyone shall have been confirmed by the Lords of the Nation, the Lords shall address the people of their nation and say: "Now you of our nation, be informed that such a person, such a family or such families have ceased forever to bear their birth nation's name and have buried it in the depths of the earth. Henceforth let no one of our nation ever mention the original name or nation of their birth. To do so will be to hasten the end of our peace.

Did they have to say in Iroquoian? Or in the immigrant's language?

7 posted on 12/20/2001 9:48:05 AM PST by texson66
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To: Publius6961
It is nonsensical to write a constitution protecting the rights of criminals and foreigners visiting our country.

You obviously have little understanding of natural rights and the philosophical background for the American Revolution, Declaration of Independence, and the Constittution. The Constituion was written to protect natural rights from an over reaching government. Since everyone has natural rights, and the Constitution protects the natural rights of everyone, then everyone is protected. The Constitution did NOT give rights to citizens.

8 posted on 12/20/2001 9:48:27 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: texson66
Then pass a new Amendment.
9 posted on 12/20/2001 9:49:03 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: texson66
The fact that we leave this loophole accomplishes to patently unjust occurrences.

§ It allows people to gain citizenship through the commission of a crime.
§ It punishes people who are waiting to enter the country and gain citizenship legally by moving them further back.

The benefit that a family of illiterate, illegal aliens who have no allegiance to this country and no desire to assimilate or even learn English is dubious at best.

10 posted on 12/20/2001 9:50:37 AM PST by End Times Sentinel
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To: Owl_Eagle

The fact that we leave this loophole accomplishes to patently unjust occurrences.

§ It allows people to gain citizenship through the commission of a crime.

§ It punishes people who are waiting to enter the country and gain citizenship legally by moving them further back.

The benefit that a family of illiterate, illegal aliens who have no allegiance to this country and no desire to assimilate or even learn English is dubious at best.

Well Said!

11 posted on 12/20/2001 9:53:43 AM PST by texson66
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To: texson66
EXCELLENT idea! Without discriminating against any U.S. citizen, it should greatly reduce the rate of influx of undesirables.
12 posted on 12/20/2001 9:55:58 AM PST by Redbob
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To: Publius6961
How did the original colonists treat the British and the Hessians?

Ummm, as invaders?

13 posted on 12/20/2001 9:56:18 AM PST by billsux
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To: texson66
See the 14th is a sticky one, it's the one that destroyed the 10th and pre-Empire days the states had the right to require elected officials to be Christian and of moral upstanding character among many other rights given to the states by the Founders.

If we're going to start rewording that one, why not just get rid of the 16th AND 17th since they are both not in the spirit of the Founders either?

14 posted on 12/20/2001 9:56:19 AM PST by billbears
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To: texson66
The 14th Amendment was meant to secure the citizenship of former slaves. Your suggested change would make a hash of the meaning of the amendment. Leave the amendment-writing to the professionals. They screw it up enough as it is.
15 posted on 12/20/2001 9:57:25 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: texson66
This has been discussed before. I suggested that at least one parent be a citizen, native or naturalized.

There is no way that our founders could forsee the problem of illegal entry on the part of millions of non-citizens. However, to repeal the 14th amendment and replace it with a new amendment is an exercise in futility because our present day political structure would kill the process in a thousand ways.

What could be easier without changing the amendment is to drive an interpretative decision through the courts based on the meaning of:

... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, ...

Since illegal foreigners and their children are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, they should be deported back to the countries that do have jurisdiction.

Now legal foreigners who have a valid visa or permanent residence are subject to the laws and jurisdiction of the United States. They must have agreed to this prior to accepting their visa or residence status.

16 posted on 12/20/2001 10:00:55 AM PST by Hostage
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To: Iwentsouth
< "They should have made it similer to the Laws of Adoption of the Constitution of the Iroquois Nations" >

Yea right!

And made Geronimo the first president!

Your head dress fell off.

17 posted on 12/20/2001 10:03:34 AM PST by G.Mason
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To: ctdonath2
I say ye be wrong. If you're born here, you're a citizen - period.

Right! But that's not the problem - it's those pregnant illegals who must be returned before they give birth.

18 posted on 12/20/2001 10:05:01 AM PST by bimbo
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To: Arthur McGowan
The 14th Amendment was meant to secure the citizenship of former slaves. Your suggested change would make a hash of the meaning of the amendment. Leave the amendment-writing to the professionals. They screw it up enough as it is.

Well, in the 1860's the original wording might have made some sense, but I still prefer my editing. In fact, my rewriting would not affect a US citizen in any manner other than to discourage illegal immigrants.

There is an interesting article about the 14th amendment and its origins and its impact on the power of the federal government. Note the last paragraph in particular 14thAmendment

19 posted on 12/20/2001 10:06:58 AM PST by texson66
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To: Publius6961
It is nonsensical to write a constitution protecting the rights of criminals

Maybe you have a way to deprive criminals of rights while simultaneously ensuring these rights for everyone else?

Their rights are our rights. When theirs go, so go our own.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Everyone has a right to due process before being subject to loss of life, liberty or property.

The moment due process, or any other right, is denied to a class of people, save those duly convicted, it is in jeopardy for all others.

Maybe you should consider just why these rights were reserved for everyone. The Founders didn't just make this stuff up. They saw history and its abuses and learned its lessons. I think those lessons are being forgotten in favor of convenience and expediency. A policeman's job is only easy in a police state. Some inefficiency in law enforcement is a natural result of Liberty, it is part of the price of freedom.

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
-Thomas Paine

How did the original colonists treat the British and the Hessians?

The Bill of Rights was a direct result of abuses suffered under them. How ironic and disengenuous to use them, of all people, as justification for abandonment of rights of the accused.

20 posted on 12/20/2001 10:08:46 AM PST by freeeee
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